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#988 04/19/01 03:05 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,392
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Member
Zap;
so true!
i'm called in after the 'home inspector' who usually works for the realtor has 'found' the problems i need to address.

they do not usually want my advise, nor do i feel obligated to give it unless i'm asked.

my billing is headed
"electrical work as directed"

the ethical and/or moral implications fall on the powers that be who require absolutly NO certification for these "home-inspectors" in my area ( making it hard on the real ones)

[Linked Image]

#989 04/19/01 03:18 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,081
Likes: 3
Member
Redsy,

The other side of the coin ..
Ask yourself this, is adding a receptacle in a bathroom that will likely be heavily loaded by a 1875w hairdryer to a existing 15a circuit in questionable condition really an improvement?

Installing the new circuit might avoid some problems.

Bill


Bill
#990 04/22/01 11:53 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 507
G
Member
Quote
Originally posted by Bill Addiss:
Redsy,

The other side of the coin ..
Ask yourself this, is adding a receptacle in a bathroom that will likely be heavily loaded by a 1875w hairdryer to a existing 15a circuit in questionable condition really an improvement?

Installing the new circuit might avoid some problems.

Bill


OK Bill, which side of the fence are you on???
To answer the question you posed.
Yes, it's an improvement.
Is a dedicated circuit better....of course it is.
But if the customer cannot be sold on the benefits of additional work, and the AHJ has no problem with it, then it is an improvement to tap power for the GFI from an available source. Of course overload protection for that source needs to be verfied.

Biggest problem I find on a routine basis is old screw type fuseboxes with 30A fuses on all the circuits.......but's that probably another thread entirely!

#991 04/22/01 12:49 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,081
Likes: 3
Member
Golf junkie,

Can I call you Gj?
not really a good typer ..

Welcome aboard, always looking to meet someone interested in the Trade.

I will always try and put a dedicated circuit in if at all possible.

My personal opinion ... (for starters) is that UL should require a 20A plug on any Hairdrier over 1440 watts (80% of a 15A circuit). Just like anything else.

Ever see one of these?
[Linked Image]
There's more versions coming out all the time.

[Linked Image]
Bill


Bill
#992 04/22/01 03:20 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,392
S
Member
Hi Gj !
welcome to an excellent forum here, many who are into the trade, much good advice, etc.

in my opinion apprentices should be held to hours here as accountable.

Bill, is that a 'backstab' special?
[Linked Image]

clarification;
i don't mean to sound like i'd blindly go about what others wish i do electrically. But i do need to feed the fam ! We all see no-no's on a daily basis. Where the LINE is drawn is a fairly good Q, one i've asked my AHJ and insurer. The answer gravitates bettween situational and ethical points of view.
The feedback i'm recieving eludes to 'what i touch', 'repair' 'get a tool on'
if it were 'what i see' i would forever be quoting the NEC

[Linked Image]

#993 04/22/01 08:57 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,081
Likes: 3
Member
Sparky,

No, it's an Aluminum wired receptacle. I think over the years they tend to loosen up a bit and sure don't need the daily workout that an 1875 watter can give to it.

I've got some worse than that I used to carry around to make a point.
Here's a side view of this one:

[Linked Image]

Bill


Bill
#994 04/22/01 09:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 29
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sam Offline
Member
that picture is scarie!!good way to make a house a fire box!

#995 04/23/01 06:36 AM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
R
Redsy Offline OP
Member
Let me shed a little more insight (or controversy.) There is usually a fixture-mounted receptacle that presumably has been,
and would otherwise continue to be used to power curling irons, etc. Is it an improvement to disconnect it and feed a GFCI receptacle below it? Yes. Is it a violation? I dunno.

[This message has been edited by Redsy (edited 04-23-2001).]

#996 04/23/01 08:16 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,081
Likes: 3
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Redsy,

No argument that it's an Improvement over using the Fixture-mounted receptacle. If there was no receptacle in there at all it could be viewed differently. When you think about it if a Hairdrier is being used in this house it could be somewhere else, possibly on a different circuit. Using it on the Bathroom circuit (which is of unknown condition) may or may not be better than where it was. (Strictly Speaking) In that case it's a "Toss-up"
... Back on the Fence

Sam,

The really scary part is that this outlet was 2 rooms away, not used and had wood panelled walls (box set back) and a bed (Mattress) up against it. This was apparently the weakest point in that circuit. It's something to think about.

Bill


Bill
#997 04/23/01 12:23 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,722
Broom Pusher and
Member
I've seen a few Receptacles which were barbecued kind of to the extent of the one in Bill's attached image. Not quite as fried, but close to it.

The ones I had replaced [in houses - I'll leave out the vast amount of damaged outlets in Commercial installs] were mostly where the branch circuits were connected "In Series" - where the makeup was done on the Receptacle's terminals, rather than using Wirenuts and Pigtails.
Lots of older houses [circa 1955 - 1960] with the NM cable W/O ground had these types of terminations.

Other R&R Receptacles were- of course - Bathroom Receptacles [gee, I wonder why?? [Linked Image] ]
Along side of each one was the 1800 Watt blow dryer, which also had a fried cord cap / plug.
Some had replacement caps.

A few outlets were torched from portable electric floor heaters. They would usualy have signs of guilt too - their plugs were all charcoal.

I'm thinking seriously about not only having dedicated circuits per bathroom receptacles [1 circuit per bathroom], but using heavy duty 20 amp Hospital grade GFCI receptacles, or something in Spec grade which holds really solid.
Along with that, promote leaving the device plugged in at all times [to reduce internal contact / wiper wear].
This would be for my own house, or suggestions towards a person building a house, who mistakenly asks me for advice [Linked Image]
[P.S. this is the "edit" portion - forgot to include that personal note part the first time. my mind is wandering off againnnnnnnnnn..........]

This might not work so well for those whom have recepts real close to sinks and such. Ours are far enough away that a plugged in appliance would not be able to fall into the sink.

Scott SET

[This message has been edited by Scott35 (edited 04-24-2001).]


Scott " 35 " Thompson
Just Say NO To Green Eggs And Ham!
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