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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 49
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I interpret 210.8(B) to cover all 15A and 20A, 125V receptacle outlets located in the kitchen area. My misgivings are that a number of these receptacles supply fixed appliances such as refrigerators and coolers where a loss of power due to a malfunctioning GFCI will cause things such as food spoilage. Am I intepreting this section correctly?

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All of the receptacles must be protected, whether they are for equipment or not.


Ryan Jackson,
Salt Lake City
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 49
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Ryan, that's the way I read it too! I wonder if the Code writing committee gave thought to that particular issue. I really can see the owners taking out those GFCIs right after the final inspection. They're not going to tolerate the loss. I got two GFCI's in an outbuilding that are about two years old and have already failed that I'm going to replace.

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Quote
I got two GFCI's in an outbuilding that are about two years old and have already failed that I'm going to replace.

When you say replace I hope you mean with another GFCI.

If you replace them with standard outlets you will be liable for any accidents that may happen.

The reason this rule went is was because people have been killed by defective commercial kitchen equipment.

I doubt the CMP cares about some spoiled food, one reason for the tripping may be defective equipment that should be repaired or replaced.


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 37
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Commerical kitchen? Like a restaurant?

If that's the case then stuff like small coolers are usually emptied at the end of the night and their contents put into the walk-in cooler(s). The same with small freezers. During the day there should be enough people around at all times that if something tripped, someone oughta notice and be able to correct it.

I used to manage a restaurant and this wouldn't have concerned me at all.

In a home, on the other hand, someone is far less likely to notice before spoilage sets in.

[This message has been edited by jdadamo (edited 02-17-2005).]

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Ryan, Yeah I'm going to replace mine with GFCIs, I can tell you that there are plenty of people who wouldn't. Your statement, "I doubt the CMP cares about some spoiled food" triggers a nerve about the regard that the CMP gives to economic issues. I bet those restaurant owners will care about it. Anyway thanks for confirming my reading on this section of code.

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The CMP cares about the person who was killed by touching a fridge that was energized. That is how it got into the code and that is why there is no exception.

Did the CMP put any thought into it?...YES.


Ryan Jackson,
Salt Lake City
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
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GamecockEE

It was me (Bob) that said "I doubt the CMP cares about some spoiled food".

Although I have no doubt Ryan feels much the same way.

"the regard that the CMP gives to economic issues."

Forgetting that lives are important what is the economic impact to a business that has an employee killed on the job?

It may interest you to know that beginning with the 2005 NEC GFCIs are also required for vending machine outlets.

There are many ways to monitor the internal temp of commercial refrigerating equipment.

They could also specify the kitchen equipment to be hardwired or to be 208-240 volt.

Bob


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
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Iwire, I see your point about saving a life, but I hope that these changes the CMP makes are based on more than just a few isolated instances. You sound like you may be familiar with the Code making process. Do these CMP's try to gather data from other sources, such as OSHA, to determine if new proposals brought forward in the code making process are warranted?

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I am only familiar by talking with people on this forum and others that are on code making panels. Most hide their identity.

I agree with you that as cold hearted as it sounds we can not make up code rules for one particular incident.

That said it come down to deciding the cost and effect.

There is no reason kitchen equipment can not run on a GFCI.

If you have a particular unit that constantly trips a breaker there is a good chance it needs service.

Also you can help yourself out by using individual GFCIs at the point of use.

Each appliance has a certain level of leakage current you put enough appliances on the circuit and you almost guarantee a trip.



[This message has been edited by iwire (edited 02-17-2005).]


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
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