No, I don't. We all have code books and know how to read. The table of contents does not have any specifics to let anyone respond to your question. The specific items are found in the code text itself. In my opinion, a large part of what is covered in Article 422 is outside the scope of the code. Actual product design should be left up to the product standards and has no place in a construction code. Don
Re: What items here are not "installed"? What would you call "Inspect-able"?#98518 12/25/0409:46 PM12/25/0409:46 PM
Don: Go ahead and delete the contents in my message and think about a proposal for the following.
90.2 Scope. (A) Covered. This Code covers the installation and use of electrical conductors, equipment, and raceways; signaling and communications conductors, appliances equipment, and raceways; and optical fiber cables and raceways for the following:
(1) Public and private premises, including buildings, structures, mobile homes, recreational vehicles, and floating buildings
(2) Yards, lots, parking lots, carnivals, and industrial substations
FPN to (2): For additional information concerning such installations in an industrial or multibuilding complex, see ANSI C2-2002, National Electrical Safety Code.
(3) Installation and use of conductors and equipment that connect to the supply of electricity
(4) Installations used by the electric utility, such as office buildings, warehouses, garages, machine shops, and recreational buildings, that are not an integral part of a generating plant, substation, or control center.
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
Re: What items here are not "installed"? What would you call "Inspect-able"?#98519 12/25/0409:54 PM12/25/0409:54 PM
Joe, How can we expand the scope to cover the use and things like appliances that the inspector will never see? If it happens after the final inspection, what method would be used for enforcement? I agree that there are often problems caused by the use and misuse of things that are not "installed". I just don't see how we can cover them in the NEC. Don
Re: What items here are not "installed"? What would you call "Inspect-able"?#98520 12/25/0410:35 PM12/25/0410:35 PM
I agree, but believe that the current makeup and membership of the NFPA NEC Committees would not agree with deleting the subject of appliances, etc.
What about Articles 280 and 285, they are not required, and if they are installed then they will be inspected.
I am sure that the number of appliances, such as electric ranges, installed in the USA are many, and there are probably millions with 30 ampere cords, and many without the right connector, and some with pennies behind the old Edison base 30 ampere fuse under the right rear burner.
I really think that the 70E document is a step in the right direction, and can be expanded upon to become the inspectors tool.
What if we researched the entire NFC and especially 70B and 70E with the thought of installations only and an appliance code?
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
Re: What items here are not "installed"? What would you call "Inspect-able"?#98521 12/26/0410:04 PM12/26/0410:04 PM
Joe, I still think that the appliance type equipment has to be addressed in the product standards. These items are not in place at the time of the electrical final and the inspector has no legal right to come back into the building after the final without the owners permission or a search warrent. In many areas the other fire codes are not adopted by the local or state governments and therefore are not enforcable. Don
Re: What items here are not "installed"? What would you call "Inspect-able"?#98522 12/28/0410:05 AM12/28/0410:05 AM
Charlie, Yes, they are appliances and their construction is covered by product standards not the NEC. I can understand the NEC rules that tells us how to supply power to these appliances, but not those that tell how to use or construct portable appliances. I guess I should say that the use and construction of non-permanently installed appliances should not be in the code. An example is the new rule requiring vending machine cords to have built-in GFCI protection. This rule has no business being in the NEC. It belongs in a product standard. The code seems to be expanding the rules in this area, and it is my opinion that such rules are not within the scope of the NEC. I think that the following rules in Article 422 (2002 NEC) are not within the scope statement shown in 90.2 and should be removed from the NEC: 422.4, and 422.40 though 422.50. I’m not sure how you can apply 422.10 and .11 to portable appliances that are not present at the time of design or inspection. Don