ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Shout Box
Recent Posts
Ronald and Nancy Reagan in GE commercials
by Bill Addiss. 03/13/19 08:12 PM
Carflex in an RNC connector?
by gfretwell. 03/12/19 05:21 PM
Reverse-feeding transformer in PV system?
by HotLine1. 03/11/19 08:37 AM
Vintage stage lighting and equipment catalogs
by Albert. 03/09/19 06:21 PM
TJX Recalls Heating Pads
by Admin. 03/08/19 09:33 PM
New in the Gallery:
What is this for?
Plug terminals
Who's Online Now
1 registered members (Scott35), 36 guests, and 17 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Hot tub disconnect #96431
11/28/05 11:01 PM
11/28/05 11:01 PM
Norstarr  Offline OP
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 86
I'm installing a spa disconnect for a hot tub that is strictly 230 volt operation so no need for a neutral. I see no reason to pull in a neutral conductor from the residential service panel for the pigtail on the GFCI 2 pole breaker and plan to terminate it on the ground bar with the separate equipment grounding conductor in the disconnect. Anybody see a violation here? Can't seem to find a concrete answer, even the inspector was scratching his head but has left it up to me to show it is ok. I'm up to the challenge but thought I would take a shortcut by asking if any of you fellas have already gone down this road.

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: Hot tub disconnect #96432
11/28/05 11:12 PM
11/28/05 11:12 PM
bot540  Offline
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 174
Vernon Hills, IL
Didn't you get a wiring diagram with the disconnect? If I remember correctly you do not need to hook it up at all. I would just cap it. It isn't a ground so bonding it doesn't make much sense to me.

Jesus may have been a capenter,but God was an electrician.Genesis1:3
Re: Hot tub disconnect #96433
11/29/05 05:10 AM
11/29/05 05:10 AM
e57  Offline
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,876
Is this GFI breaker going to be the disconnect means?

It is a white wire, dont suppose you could tape it green? Just so some joker down the line doesn't put a neutral on it?

This is a good question. But why not just run the neutral? Capping is not good because it would have no refferance for ground, that is after all most of the purpose!

Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason
Re: Hot tub disconnect #96434
11/29/05 09:52 AM
11/29/05 09:52 AM
George Little  Offline
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,493
Michigan USA
GFCI breakers will monitor the current flow in all the conductors hooked up to them whether they are phase conductors or the white conductor. As soon as there is current flow exceeding 6ma. flowing someplace other than in those conductors connected to the breaker, the breaker will trip. Do not hook the white conductor to anything, unless it is needed by the load. No code reference other than maybe 110.3

George Little
Re: Hot tub disconnect #96435
11/29/05 09:57 AM
11/29/05 09:57 AM
Mike Wescoatt  Offline
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 161
Cedar City, Utah
To the best of my knowledge the circuit board in the GFCI won't work if there isn't a neutral, since the circuit runs on 120V. It is the same part that the single pole breakers use. (To test it out, disconnect the white pigtail and press the test button...) I don't remember any code provision that allows the use of a GEC for a neutral, even if it is for .001 watt... Besides, what about future accessories to the tub that do require 120V service?
IMHO, pull the white and there are no questions.

[This message has been edited by Mike Wescoatt (edited 11-29-2005).]

Mike Wescoatt
Re: Hot tub disconnect #96436
11/29/05 11:04 AM
11/29/05 11:04 AM
Norstarr  Offline OP
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 86
Thanks for the replies fellas
The problem is that this white pigtail is needed in the test mode of the breaker so just capping it wouldn't be practical. As 57 suggested, why not just run a neutral, is an easy way to be done with it but I am challenging my experiences and that of others to determine whether we really need to pull that neutral wire since the pigtail wouldn't be a current carrying conductor except possibly during a fault test. Although I will most likely just pull the neutral wire in to save on bickering time it would be nice to know, theory and code wise, whether it is necessary. The other point I was discussing with my apprentice this morning was the fact that the egc was terminated on the grounding bar in the spa disconnect so if I would terminate the "neutral" from the breaker at that point it could be said that now I've created a "service" point since the ground bar is bonded to the enclosure. Probably best to just pull the neutral in. Very fun discussion though. I will have to bring it up when together with others in the trade at the next convention.
Thanks again for all the replies.


2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman


Member Spotlight
Brick, NJ USA
Posts: 7,081
Joined: April 2002
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
Admin 9
Albert 3
Popular Topics(Views)
253,898 Are you busy
190,332 Re: Forum
180,044 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1
(Release build 20180101)
Page Time: 0.025s Queries: 14 (0.004s) Memory: 0.9776 MB (Peak: 1.1187 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2019-03-22 18:38:00 UTC