ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
sparky 4
Recent Posts
Dimmable LED 2x4 lay in fixtures
by gfretwell. 12/13/17 09:49 PM
2017 NEC Changes
by sparky. 12/13/17 06:57 PM
Casino Wiring methods
by HotLine1. 12/09/17 10:44 AM
Ground wire Size to water Line.
by HotLine1. 12/05/17 12:11 PM
Flexible conduit to an outside Spa
by gfretwell. 12/05/17 12:28 AM
New in the Gallery:
Gallery Test
Popular Topics(Views)
243,036 Are you busy
179,453 Re: Forum
170,394 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 21 guests, and 7 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
#96431 - 11/28/05 10:01 PM Hot tub disconnect  
Norstarr  Offline
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 86
I'm installing a spa disconnect for a hot tub that is strictly 230 volt operation so no need for a neutral. I see no reason to pull in a neutral conductor from the residential service panel for the pigtail on the GFCI 2 pole breaker and plan to terminate it on the ground bar with the separate equipment grounding conductor in the disconnect. Anybody see a violation here? Can't seem to find a concrete answer, even the inspector was scratching his head but has left it up to me to show it is ok. I'm up to the challenge but thought I would take a shortcut by asking if any of you fellas have already gone down this road.

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides

#96432 - 11/28/05 10:12 PM Re: Hot tub disconnect  
bot540  Offline
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 174
Vernon Hills, IL
Didn't you get a wiring diagram with the disconnect? If I remember correctly you do not need to hook it up at all. I would just cap it. It isn't a ground so bonding it doesn't make much sense to me.

Jesus may have been a capenter,but God was an electrician.Genesis1:3

#96433 - 11/29/05 04:10 AM Re: Hot tub disconnect  
e57  Offline
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,876
Is this GFI breaker going to be the disconnect means?

It is a white wire, dont suppose you could tape it green? Just so some joker down the line doesn't put a neutral on it?

This is a good question. But why not just run the neutral? Capping is not good because it would have no refferance for ground, that is after all most of the purpose!

Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason

#96434 - 11/29/05 08:52 AM Re: Hot tub disconnect  
George Little  Offline
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,489
Michigan USA
GFCI breakers will monitor the current flow in all the conductors hooked up to them whether they are phase conductors or the white conductor. As soon as there is current flow exceeding 6ma. flowing someplace other than in those conductors connected to the breaker, the breaker will trip. Do not hook the white conductor to anything, unless it is needed by the load. No code reference other than maybe 110.3

George Little

#96435 - 11/29/05 08:57 AM Re: Hot tub disconnect  
Mike Wescoatt  Offline
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 161
Cedar City, Utah
To the best of my knowledge the circuit board in the GFCI won't work if there isn't a neutral, since the circuit runs on 120V. It is the same part that the single pole breakers use. (To test it out, disconnect the white pigtail and press the test button...) I don't remember any code provision that allows the use of a GEC for a neutral, even if it is for .001 watt... Besides, what about future accessories to the tub that do require 120V service?
IMHO, pull the white and there are no questions.

[This message has been edited by Mike Wescoatt (edited 11-29-2005).]

Mike Wescoatt

#96436 - 11/29/05 10:04 AM Re: Hot tub disconnect  
Norstarr  Offline
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 86
Thanks for the replies fellas
The problem is that this white pigtail is needed in the test mode of the breaker so just capping it wouldn't be practical. As 57 suggested, why not just run a neutral, is an easy way to be done with it but I am challenging my experiences and that of others to determine whether we really need to pull that neutral wire since the pigtail wouldn't be a current carrying conductor except possibly during a fault test. Although I will most likely just pull the neutral wire in to save on bickering time it would be nice to know, theory and code wise, whether it is necessary. The other point I was discussing with my apprentice this morning was the fact that the egc was terminated on the grounding bar in the spa disconnect so if I would terminate the "neutral" from the breaker at that point it could be said that now I've created a "service" point since the ground bar is bonded to the enclosure. Probably best to just pull the neutral in. Very fun discussion though. I will have to bring it up when together with others in the trade at the next convention.
Thanks again for all the replies.

Member Spotlight
Posts: 46
Joined: May 2007
Show All Member Profiles 

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman


Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.019s Queries: 14 (0.009s) Memory: 0.7779 MB (Peak: 0.9211 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-12-14 07:53:43 UTC