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#95829 - 10/11/05 11:02 AM Eye Clinic & 517  
Alan Nadon  Offline
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 399
Elkhart, IN. USA
I'm not sure if Article 517 applies to an eye clinic that does eye exams and makes glasses but, does not do eye surgery or treat eye injuries. They employ licenced optometrist but no doctors.
Health care facilities include medical, dental, psychiatric, nursing, Ob/Gyn, and surgical facilities (Lasic would be in that part) but, I'm wondering about the regular eye clinic.
Is it a health care facility ?
Alan-- an Inspector

If it was easy, anyone could do it.

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#95830 - 10/11/05 11:35 AM Re: Eye Clinic & 517  
raider1  Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 46
north logan, utah, US
Under the definition of health care facilities, it says " Health care facilities include but are not limited to, hospitals, nursing homes, limited care facilities, clinics, medical and dental offices, and ambulatory care centers, whether permant or moveable."

IMHO, I think a case could be made that an eye clinic is a health care facility.


#95831 - 10/11/05 11:46 AM Re: Eye Clinic & 517  
SolarPowered  Offline
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 625
Palo Alto, CA, USA
During an eye exam, there is most definitely electrical equipment against your body. For example, the glaucoma tester, and the gadget with all the lenses in it. So, yes, an eye clinic absolutely needs to be treated as a health-care facility.

#95832 - 10/11/05 12:10 PM Re: Eye Clinic & 517  
gfretwell  Offline

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,142
Since the patient is not connected to any of the machines I would dissagree. Certainly the AHJ can say anything they like but if we are calling the "eye machine" something that is "directly connected to the patient" (as in 517.11 FPN) then we better start looking at video arcades and the blood pressure machine at the drug store.

Greg Fretwell

#95833 - 10/11/05 04:36 PM Re: Eye Clinic & 517  
SolarPowered  Offline
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 625
Palo Alto, CA, USA
I don't know the exact definition, but that glaucoma sensor in direct contact with my eyeball certainly seems "connected" from my point of view...

#95834 - 10/11/05 05:53 PM Re: Eye Clinic & 517  
Roger  Offline
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,716
I agree with Greg.

If we are going to try to include all the places that may examine a human being for anything, what are we going to do about the Lions Club (diabetes, glaucoma, etc...) flu shot clinics, and others, that set up at schools and businesses to provide testing, vaccinations, and the like?

In N.C. it is decided by the AHJ which is the Division of Facility Services or DFS for short.

Most plain jane Eye Clinics, Doctors Offices, Dental Offices, etc... where no surgeries or major invasive procedures are performed, are not considered Health Care Facilities to the extent that part II of 517 would be the law.

I think the NFPA has intentionally left this up to the individual AHJ's. NFPA 99 is just as open (vague) as the NEC is on the matter.


[This message has been edited by Roger (edited 10-11-2005).]

#95835 - 10/11/05 07:15 PM Re: Eye Clinic & 517  
harold endean  Offline
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
Boonton, NJ
My 2 cents is to get a letter in writing from the doctors that do the work there stating that their equipment used will not be hooked up to the patients. The new type of Glaucoma machines I have seen don't really touch your eye, but they will blow a small puff of air into your eye. So as Greg stated, you are touching the machine, but you are not really hooked up to it. Also ask the AHJ in that location if he/she sees it that way.

#95836 - 10/11/05 07:42 PM Re: Eye Clinic & 517  
caselec  Offline
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 558
San Jose, CA
I don’t understand why Part II wouldn’t apply.

517.10 Applicability
(A) Applicability Part II shall apply to patient care areas of all health care facilities.

(B) Not Covered Part II shall not apply to the following:
(1)Business offices, corridors, waiting rooms, and the like in clinics, medical and dental offices, and outpatient facilities.

Why would 517.10(B)(1) be necessary if these facilities were not intended to be included in the requirements at all? The patient care areas would still be required to meet Part II.


Curt Swartz

#95837 - 10/11/05 10:27 PM Re: Eye Clinic & 517  
George Little  Offline
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,489
Michigan USA
When I inspect one of these facilities and I see a piece of equipment with a cord cap on it that has a green dot on it, I expect the circuit supplying this piece of equipment to comply with Article 517.

George Little

#95838 - 10/11/05 11:00 PM Re: Eye Clinic & 517  
gfretwell  Offline

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,142
On the other hand the "hospital plug" might just be there to please the guy who spent so much money on the hospital receptacles

Greg Fretwell

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