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FPE in Germany
by andey - 12/09/19 01:49 PM
Do you count seconds?
by gfretwell - 12/05/19 07:36 PM
"Esoteric" countries and their wiring practices?
by Texas_Ranger - 12/02/19 10:52 AM
Look at this mess...
by NORCAL - 11/15/19 10:21 PM
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FPE in Germany pt.2
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Re: SER Physical protection #95297 09/08/05 04:50 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 14
M
MI Sparky Offline
Member
hahahaha....EXACTLY.


I thought that was off!!!!
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Re: SER Physical protection #95298 09/08/05 05:21 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 106
J
jw electric Offline
Member
Quote
“Let me describe the installation. This is a manufactured home
From the back of the disconnect a #2 SER was run under the manufactured home to the 1.5" stub from the panel and they used a 1.5" female PVC adapter and screwed in a 1.5" SER connector into it.
They used a PVC 2 hole strap to support it to the frame.”


Using the quote, given above, of the poster (gserve) then this now becomes an issue of 550. In 550.15 (H) we are told that this is a very big NO NO

Quote
“550.15 (H) Under-Chassis Wiring (Exposed to Weather). Where outdoor or under-chassis line-voltage (120 volts, nominal, or higher) wiring is exposed to moisture or physical damage, it shall be protected by rigid metal conduit or intermediate metal conduit. The conductors shall be suitable for wet locations.”


Not only does this violate 550.15 (H) but a good look at 550.33 will shed more light on this matter

Quote
“550.33 (A) Feeder Conductors. Feeder conductors shall consist of either a listed cord, factory installed in accordance with 550.10(B), or a permanently installed feeder consisting of four insulated, color-coded conductors that shall be identified by the factory or field marking of the conductors in compliance with 310.12. Equipment grounding conductors shall not be identified by stripping the insulation.”



[This message has been edited by jw electric (edited 09-08-2005).]


Mike
Re: SER Physical protection #95299 09/09/05 09:20 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 27
W
William Runkle Offline
Member
Congratulation JW Electric you caught it where everyone else was trying to figure out protection for SER when it was used as a feeder for a modular home. I agree on 550.33 Feeders [A] it has to be 4 insulated wires.


William Runkle
Re: SER Physical protection #95300 09/13/05 11:18 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 28
B
Bomzin Offline
Member
Wow must have missed that in the code somewhere along the way. That code is not inforced by any length here in Utah . You will get exactly what gserve described basically.

Now what if the manufactured home is sitting on a foundation. Is the SER really exposed to moisture strapped to the bottom of the home or just humidity.

Neil

Re: SER Physical protection #95301 09/14/05 03:57 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 106
J
jw electric Offline
Member
I would say that the question is not if there is a permanent foundation but rather does this installation fall under 550.

Is this a mobile or manufactured home?
If it is then all of 550 would apply all of the time.
[Linked Image]


Mike
Re: SER Physical protection #95302 09/14/05 07:21 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 28
B
Bomzin Offline
Member
Is this a mobile or manufactured home! LOL.

Their is no such thing as a mobile home just ask the people living in them . I get slapped around any more on calls for using the term mobile.

So does being a manufactured home put this in a differant catagory. [Linked Image]

Re: SER Physical protection #95303 09/14/05 08:34 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 92
G
gserve Offline OP
Member
It is a manufactured home(double wide)set up on piers on a slab and skirted in a park. The term mobile home now refers to single wide homes. Modulars are set on a permanent foundation like stick built.

Re: SER Physical protection #95304 09/14/05 10:21 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 106
J
jw electric Offline
Member
Well let’s see just what the big red book has to say:

Quote

ARTICLE 550 Mobile Homes, Manufactured Homes, and Mobile Home Parks

Manufactured Home. A structure, transportable in one or more sections, that is 2.5 m (8 body ft) or more in width or 12 m (40 body ft) or more in length in the traveling mode or, when erected on site, is 30 m2 (320 ft2) or more; which is built on a chassis and designed to be used as a dwelling, with or without a permanent foundation, when connected to the required utilities, including the plumbing, heating, air conditioning, and electrical systems contained therein. Calculations used to determine the number of square meters (square feet) in a structure will be based on the structure’s exterior dimensions, measured at the largest horizontal projections when erected on site. These dimensions include all expandable rooms, cabinets, and other projections containing interior space but do not include inside bay windows.
For the purpose of this Code and unless otherwise indicated, the term mobile home includes manufactured homes.

Mobile Home. A factory-assembled structure or structures transportable in one or more sections that is built on a permanent chassis and designed to be used as a dwelling without a permanent foundation where connected to the required utilities and that includes the plumbing, heating, air-conditioning, and electric systems contained therein.
For the purpose of this Code and unless otherwise indicated, the term mobile home includes manufactured homes.


I slapped this big red book all over the room down the hall and out into the front yard but it is clear that no matter weather it is a Mobile Home or a Manufactured Home it is still a Mobile Home we call them trailers where I live.


Mike
Re: SER Physical protection #95305 09/15/05 02:32 AM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 717
M
macmikeman Offline
Member
"I think they all look better as beer cans," Jimmy Buffet.

Re: SER Physical protection #95306 09/15/05 07:02 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 28
B
Bomzin Offline
Member
So where is the quote button [Linked Image]


“550.15 (H) Under-Chassis Wiring (Exposed to Weather). Where outdoor or under-chassis line-voltage (120 volts, nominal, or higher) wiring is exposed to moisture or physical damage, it shall be protected by rigid metal conduit or intermediate metal conduit. The conductors shall be suitable for wet locations.”

This is why I hate code at times. Isn't the key to this in "(Exposed to weather)" . Once the home is placed and the skirting is up around the home it is no longer Exposed to weather. I have done mobile offices and have piped them all the way but never have a home in a park or one that sitts on a foundation. We have a manufactured home account that sets them , I have done quite a few. Possibly all wrong but I don't think so. This point is arguable simply by it's wording . SER is moisture resistant. If run in a way protected from physical damage and all the other good stuff.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
“550.33 (A) Feeder Conductors. Feeder conductors shall consist of either a listed cord, factory installed in accordance with 550.10(B), or a permanently installed feeder consisting of four insulated, color-coded conductors that shall be identified by the factory or field marking of the conductors in compliance with 310.12. Equipment grounding conductors shall not be identified by stripping the insulation.”


As for that with SER I am not stripping the insulation it comes bare. The ground wire is insulated in the SER sheathing.

It does need protection from physical damage. As long as the underside is NOT being used for storage and there is going to be a skirting put on or other permanent barrier around the outside of the home I would think your good to go .

Neil

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