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Uses permitted/not permitted #93720 06/08/05 05:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
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George Little Offline OP
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Do you feel that the uses permitted is all inclusive or the uses not permited is all inclusive? For example 334.10 does not say NM cable is allowed in construction Types I and II and 334.12,Use not permited, does not show it as prohibited.


George Little
2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: Uses permitted/not permitted #93721 06/08/05 06:47 PM
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shortcircuit Offline
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George Little,
Are you in the 2002 NEC?

The 2005 NEC seems to have cleared up this confusion with the addition of a new 334.12(A)(1)

shortcircuit

Re: Uses permitted/not permitted #93722 06/08/05 08:16 PM
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George Little Offline OP
Member
Yes we are on the '02 and I agree the '05 is different. But the real crux of the problem is uses permitted and not permitted being not all inclusive.


George Little
Re: Uses permitted/not permitted #93723 06/08/05 08:39 PM
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e57 Offline
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Whats different in the '05?

Did they realize they messed up the wording, or lack there-of in the '02?


Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason
Re: Uses permitted/not permitted #93724 06/08/05 09:00 PM
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Ryan_J Offline
Moderator
In the 2005 you will find this FPN in all of the cable wiring methods xxx.10 sections, which should answer your question:

Quote
FPN: The “Uses Permitted” is not an all-inclusive list.


Ryan Jackson,
Salt Lake City
Re: Uses permitted/not permitted #93725 06/08/05 09:32 PM
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George Little Offline OP
Member
Ryan- It doesn't say it in article 334, 340 or 336, The one I'm ionterested in is 334 and it should.


George Little
Re: Uses permitted/not permitted #93726 06/08/05 09:41 PM
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Ryan_J Offline
Moderator
Far out, I didn't even look, my apologies. [Linked Image]

I would be very comfortable as an AHJ saying that it is not all inclusive though.


Ryan Jackson,
Salt Lake City
Re: Uses permitted/not permitted #93727 06/09/05 12:11 AM
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e57 Offline
Member
We have debated this one several times lately, but don't think we got anywhere.

George brings up a valid point. It does not say 'permited' or 'not permited'.

So is it permited, or not?

George, have you, or do you plan to wire a high-rise in NM?


Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason
Re: Uses permitted/not permitted #93728 06/09/05 07:53 AM
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George Little Offline OP
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I am an inspector and this issue has come up under the '02 code that would presumably allow NM cable in a multifamily dwelling (5 story) of Type I construction.


George Little
Re: Uses permitted/not permitted #93729 06/09/05 08:56 PM
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e57 Offline
Member
Well George, I guess it is up to you then....

Although, as I said before, I see Romex as a "combustable", and has no place in Type 1, which are supposed to be "Non-combustable" in type of construction.

And that this code was written in a purposefully vague wording designed to be manipulated.

I see your point though... Doesn't allow, or dis-allow....
334.10 has notes: Not part of the NEC! Do you enforce codes outside of it?
Quote
FPN No. 1:Building constructions are defined in NFPA 220-1999, Standard on Types of Building Construction, or the applicable building code, or both.
FPN No. 2:See Annex E for determination of building types [NFPA 220, Table 3-1].

Might be up to your Building, or Fire Inspector to throw down the guantlet from the codes they enforce.... Fire-stopping isn't really in the NEC, do you enforce that, or do they?


Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason
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