ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
ShoutChat
Recent Posts
Any women electricians here?
by HotLine1 - 01/27/22 02:44 PM
12 Lead Motor Connection Weird
by emolatur - 01/19/22 02:40 PM
Well There's your problem.
by gfretwell - 01/08/22 12:17 AM
Happy New Year!!
by HotLine1 - 01/04/22 09:50 AM
Sangamo s309.2
by Robski - 12/31/21 04:54 PM
New in the Gallery:
240/208 to a house
240/208 to a house
by wa2ise, October 9
Now you know.
Now you know.
by Tom_Horne, September 7
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 47 guests, and 12 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#93720 06/08/05 04:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,507
G
Member
Do you feel that the uses permitted is all inclusive or the uses not permited is all inclusive? For example 334.10 does not say NM cable is allowed in construction Types I and II and 334.12,Use not permited, does not show it as prohibited.


George Little
Stay up to Code with the Latest NEC:


2020 NEC & Related Reference & Study Guides
2020 NEC & Related Reference & Study Guides
Pass Your Exam the FIRST TIME with these Exam Prep Combos:
 

>> Master Electrician Exam Prep     >> JourneyMan Electrician Exam Prep
 

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 613
S
Member
George Little,
Are you in the 2002 NEC?

The 2005 NEC seems to have cleared up this confusion with the addition of a new 334.12(A)(1)

shortcircuit

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,507
G
Member
Yes we are on the '02 and I agree the '05 is different. But the real crux of the problem is uses permitted and not permitted being not all inclusive.


George Little
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,876
E
e57 Offline
Member
Whats different in the '05?

Did they realize they messed up the wording, or lack there-of in the '02?


Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,374
R
Moderator
In the 2005 you will find this FPN in all of the cable wiring methods xxx.10 sections, which should answer your question:

Quote
FPN: The “Uses Permitted” is not an all-inclusive list.


Ryan Jackson,
Salt Lake City
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,507
G
Member
Ryan- It doesn't say it in article 334, 340 or 336, The one I'm ionterested in is 334 and it should.


George Little
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,374
R
Moderator
Far out, I didn't even look, my apologies. [Linked Image]

I would be very comfortable as an AHJ saying that it is not all inclusive though.


Ryan Jackson,
Salt Lake City
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,876
E
e57 Offline
Member
We have debated this one several times lately, but don't think we got anywhere.

George brings up a valid point. It does not say 'permited' or 'not permited'.

So is it permited, or not?

George, have you, or do you plan to wire a high-rise in NM?


Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,507
G
Member
I am an inspector and this issue has come up under the '02 code that would presumably allow NM cable in a multifamily dwelling (5 story) of Type I construction.


George Little
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,876
E
e57 Offline
Member
Well George, I guess it is up to you then....

Although, as I said before, I see Romex as a "combustable", and has no place in Type 1, which are supposed to be "Non-combustable" in type of construction.

And that this code was written in a purposefully vague wording designed to be manipulated.

I see your point though... Doesn't allow, or dis-allow....
334.10 has notes: Not part of the NEC! Do you enforce codes outside of it?
Quote
FPN No. 1:Building constructions are defined in NFPA 220-1999, Standard on Types of Building Construction, or the applicable building code, or both.
FPN No. 2:See Annex E for determination of building types [NFPA 220, Table 3-1].

Might be up to your Building, or Fire Inspector to throw down the guantlet from the codes they enforce.... Fire-stopping isn't really in the NEC, do you enforce that, or do they?


Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
Featured:

Tools for Electricians
Tools for Electricians
 

* * * * * * *

2020 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2020 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
Admin
Admin
NY, USA
Posts: 3,669
Joined: October 2000
Top Posters(30 Days)
Popular Topics(Views)
288,242 Are you busy
220,308 Re: Forum
206,295 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5