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CB as disconnect means #93544 05/30/05 08:54 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 133
E
Electric Ian Offline OP
Member
I'm confused. 422.31(B) allows the branch circuit breaker to serve as the disconnecting means even if not within sight of the appliance as long as the breaker is capable of being locked in the open position.
Aren't ALL circuit breakers capable of being locked in the open position thru use of a lockout device??

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Re: CB as disconnect means #93545 05/30/05 09:26 PM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 375
G
George Offline
Member
The lockout device needs to be present. Often times that means installed in the CB box.

Re: CB as disconnect means #93546 05/30/05 10:06 PM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
H
harold endean Offline
Member
You should be able to use the cover of the service panel if there is a lock on the cover, for a means of disconnect also.

Re: CB as disconnect means #93547 05/31/05 12:05 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,513
G
gfretwell Offline
Member
Around here they usually want the "within sight" disconnect, even though the code does allow a lockable breaker. I tend to agree.
It is hard enough to get a tech to turn off the disconnect when it is close. If he has to climb down from the attic, get a padlock from his truck, move all the crap the homeowner has piled in front of the panel yada yada ... he will work the unit hot. Most local AHJs around here feel the same way.


Greg Fretwell
Re: CB as disconnect means #93548 05/31/05 08:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,044
Tom Offline
Member
Ian,

The provision for locking or adding a lock requires the installation of a separate piece of hardware that will remain in place. See the last sentence of 422.31(B) in the 2005 edition.

Harold,

I don't believe that locking the cover of the panelboard is the same as actually locking the branch- circuit breaker handle in place,

Tom


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Re: CB as disconnect means #93549 05/31/05 10:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member
We have had similar discussions in the past, and, as a reminder:
- OSHA rules and NEC requirements differ;
- Until the early '90's there were practically no electrical lock-out devices made;
- Such devices often don't work on older equipment; and,
- There is a lot of perfectly good equipment out there that was made before LOTO was an issue.

So what did we do back then? Most often, we opened the box, disconnected the wires, and maybe taped a sign up. If there was any doubt, we also disconnected the wires at the machine.

Re: CB as disconnect means #93550 06/07/05 10:07 PM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
H
harold endean Offline
Member
Tom,

What is the difference of putting a lock on the breaker or just locking the door of the panel. Now I am not trying to give anyone here a hard time. I am just asking. [Linked Image]

Re: CB as disconnect means #93551 06/07/05 10:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,507
G
George Little Offline
Member
I would have a problem with locking the panel cover close. What if there was a need turn off or on a different circuit in a hurry? Or worse yet what about an emergency need to get to the main? Now if this is a motor, 430.102(B) Exception makes locking the panel cover out of the question.

Just as a side note- When the last time you saw the key associated with a panel?


George Little
Re: CB as disconnect means #93552 06/08/05 08:16 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 849
Y
Yoopersup Offline
Member
Section 422.32 disconnecting means for appliances (if motor driven )Refers you to Part 9 in 430 which States INDIVIDUALLY capable of being locked Read 430.102 Exception . (that whole section refers to locking out the OVERCURRENT Device) They put that in there to make you put breaker locks on the instead of locking the covers.Explaination on page 544 2002 NFPA code handbook

Re: CB as disconnect means #93553 06/08/05 10:02 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 123
M
mvpmaintman Offline
Member
Another reason for locking out the circuit is that most panels of the same series use the same key. So, someone else might energize a circuit inadvertently.


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