ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Recent Posts
240V only in a home and NEC?
by emolatur - 05/18/24 06:12 PM
Electricians revenge
by gfretwell - 05/09/24 08:24 PM
Safety at heights?
by gfretwell - 04/23/24 03:03 PM
Old low volt E10 sockets - supplier or alternative
by gfretwell - 04/21/24 11:20 AM
New in the Gallery:
This is a new one
This is a new one
by timmp, September 24
Few pics I found
Few pics I found
by timmp, August 15
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 27 guests, and 9 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
#93544 05/30/05 08:54 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 133
I'm confused. 422.31(B) allows the branch circuit breaker to serve as the disconnecting means even if not within sight of the appliance as long as the breaker is capable of being locked in the open position.
Aren't ALL circuit breakers capable of being locked in the open position thru use of a lockout device??

Stay up to Code with the Latest NEC:

>> 2023 NEC & Related Reference & Exam Prep
2023 NEC & Related Reference & Study Guides

Pass Your Exam the FIRST TIME with the Latest NEC & Exam Prep

>> 2020 NEC & Related Reference & Study Guides

#93545 05/30/05 09:26 PM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 375
The lockout device needs to be present. Often times that means installed in the CB box.

#93546 05/30/05 10:06 PM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
You should be able to use the cover of the service panel if there is a lock on the cover, for a means of disconnect also.

#93547 05/31/05 12:05 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,935
Likes: 34
Around here they usually want the "within sight" disconnect, even though the code does allow a lockable breaker. I tend to agree.
It is hard enough to get a tech to turn off the disconnect when it is close. If he has to climb down from the attic, get a padlock from his truck, move all the crap the homeowner has piled in front of the panel yada yada ... he will work the unit hot. Most local AHJs around here feel the same way.

Greg Fretwell
#93548 05/31/05 08:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,044
Tom Offline

The provision for locking or adding a lock requires the installation of a separate piece of hardware that will remain in place. See the last sentence of 422.31(B) in the 2005 edition.


I don't believe that locking the cover of the panelboard is the same as actually locking the branch- circuit breaker handle in place,


Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example.
#93549 05/31/05 10:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,445
Likes: 3
Cat Servant
We have had similar discussions in the past, and, as a reminder:
- OSHA rules and NEC requirements differ;
- Until the early '90's there were practically no electrical lock-out devices made;
- Such devices often don't work on older equipment; and,
- There is a lot of perfectly good equipment out there that was made before LOTO was an issue.

So what did we do back then? Most often, we opened the box, disconnected the wires, and maybe taped a sign up. If there was any doubt, we also disconnected the wires at the machine.

#93550 06/07/05 10:07 PM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233

What is the difference of putting a lock on the breaker or just locking the door of the panel. Now I am not trying to give anyone here a hard time. I am just asking. [Linked Image]

#93551 06/07/05 10:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,507
I would have a problem with locking the panel cover close. What if there was a need turn off or on a different circuit in a hurry? Or worse yet what about an emergency need to get to the main? Now if this is a motor, 430.102(B) Exception makes locking the panel cover out of the question.

Just as a side note- When the last time you saw the key associated with a panel?

George Little
#93552 06/08/05 08:16 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 849
Section 422.32 disconnecting means for appliances (if motor driven )Refers you to Part 9 in 430 which States INDIVIDUALLY capable of being locked Read 430.102 Exception . (that whole section refers to locking out the OVERCURRENT Device) They put that in there to make you put breaker locks on the instead of locking the covers.Explaination on page 544 2002 NFPA code handbook

#93553 06/08/05 10:02 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 123
Another reason for locking out the circuit is that most panels of the same series use the same key. So, someone else might energize a circuit inadvertently.

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5