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#92651 04/02/05 05:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,507
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Member
Shortcircuit- I am flattered by your comment-
[quote]Another keen observation by George Little and his band of inspectors[quote/]
I learn a lot from this forum and hopefully I can contribute to the uniforimity of all.


George Little
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#92652 04/02/05 06:13 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 613
S
Member
Keep on posting George Little...you will keep us all on our toes...

I too, have learned volumes from this forum and veterans such as you [Linked Image]

shortcircuit

#92653 04/02/05 09:37 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
R
Member
Guys,
210.52(A)(1) applies to all wall spaces 2' or wider, however the receptacles required by 210.52(C) will always satisfy the requirement in 210.52(A)(1) unless the stove space is over 8' wide.
Don


Don(resqcapt19)
#92654 04/02/05 09:41 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
R
Member
renosteinke,
Quote
Sorry, reccapt, the NFPA disagrees with you. As they say in their "Analysis of changes,"
"The new exception and associated figures apply to the area between a kitchen sink or a range and the wall behind them."
Likewise, I fail to se how a 'free standing' range would be any different
The IAEI comment on the change to 210.52(C) has nothing to do with the the wall space where there is no counter. The code section and comment only apply to counter top areas.
Don


Don(resqcapt19)
#92655 04/03/05 11:21 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 399
A
Member
You guys had me confused for a while. As an inspector I have never required a 120 V outlet behind an electric stove that has a 240 V outlet. It makes no sense. Especially when there are outlets on either side of the stove location. It would be a design consideration if someone wanted it but, not a requirement. They stopped putting recpt.s on stoves and bathroom cabinets when GFI requirements came in. With the new requirements for 4 wires to stoves a fused adaptor could be made that would just plug into the 240 outlet and provide the 120 V outlet. Does someone want to start making them ? I won't even ask for royalties. Alan


Alan--
If it was easy, anyone could do it.
#92656 04/03/05 03:19 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 681
P
Member
Scenario:

A 36 inch (width) range. On either side of the range, a receptacle is installed 1 foot from the range. This makes the receptacles spaced at 5 feet. More than the countertop requirements permits, but less than 12 feet.
So which requirement am I trying to meet? Both, one or the other.
Does the countertop receptacle placed less than 5 1/2 feet above the finished floor fulfill the "wall space" requirement.

I say that the space behind the range is not required to be counted as wall space [210.52(C)(5)] and therefore does not require a receptacle placed there...in my mind a horrible location for a receptacle as it invites a safety hazard worse than if it was not there.


Pierre Belarge
#92657 04/03/05 06:31 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 209
H
Member
If we have to put receptacle outlets above the stove, will we be required to start putting them above electric baseboard heaters next? Seems safer above the heater than the stove!

#92658 04/03/05 09:20 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
R
Member
PCBelarge,
Quote
So which requirement am I trying to meet? Both, one or the other.
You have to comply with 210.52(C) for the countertops and 210.52(A) for the wall space where the stove will be installed.
Quote
Does the countertop receptacle placed less than 5 1/2 feet above the finished floor fulfill the "wall space" requirement?
The first part of 210.52 says that receptacles located 5 1/2 feet or less above the finished floor can be used to satisfy the wall receptacle requirement in 210.52(A).
Quote
I say that the space behind the range is not required to be counted as wall space [210.52(C)(5)] and therefore does not require a receptacle placed there...
How does anything in 210.52(C) apply the wall space behind a free standing stove? The section only applies to countertops. I see nothing in the code that says the wall space behind free standing appliances in not counted for the purposes of 210.52(A). If there is please cite the code section. I maintain that this space is wall space and receptacles must be installed to meet rule in 210.52(A), but if there is a countertop next the wall space, the required countertop receptacle, as long as it is 5.5' or less above the floor, will, in almost all cases, satisfy the rule in 210.52(A).
Don

[This message has been edited by resqcapt19 (edited 04-03-2005).]


Don(resqcapt19)
#92659 04/04/05 06:25 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 8
R
Junior Member
As it has been in the past when common sense fails us, the NEC helps to answer these questions. In the 2005 NEC this issue is clearly addressed (sp?) in 210.52(3)(C)(1). This execption states....Receptacle outlets shall not be required on a wall directly behind a range or sink in the installation described in Figure 210.52.

#92660 04/04/05 09:52 AM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
R
Member
Redogs54,
Quote
As it has been in the past when common sense fails us, the NEC helps to answer these questions. In the 2005 NEC this issue is clearly addressed (sp?) in 210.52(3)(C)(1). This execption states....Receptacle outlets shall not be required on a wall directly behind a range or sink in the installation described in Figure 210.52.
Quote
210.52(C) Countertops.
How does anything in 210.52(C) apply to the question of the wall space behind a free staning stove? The section only applies to wall space above countertops.
Don



[This message has been edited by resqcapt19 (edited 04-04-2005).]


Don(resqcapt19)
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