ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
ShoutChat
Recent Posts
How's Florida doing with Hurricane Ian?
by Bill Addiss - 09/28/22 12:41 PM
Tough being a lineman's kid
by Bill Addiss - 09/28/22 12:39 PM
GFCI's pops in large numbers
by dsk - 09/26/22 04:35 AM
AFCI’s Revisited
by sparky - 09/24/22 09:58 AM
NFPA Price Increase Coming
by Bill Addiss - 09/23/22 02:22 PM
New in the Gallery:
240/208 to a house
240/208 to a house
by wa2ise, October 9
Now you know.
Now you know.
by Tom_Horne, September 7
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 11 guests, and 14 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
#91855 02/09/05 04:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,507
G
Member
How important is it that a sign such as covered in Article 600 of the NEC, be Listed? Do the inspectors across this BB insist on a Listed marking on signs? Additionally, do they ask that the signs get a "sidewalk inspection" before they are installed on the wall?


George Little
Stay up to Code with the Latest NEC:


2020 NEC & Related Reference & Study Guides
2020 NEC & Related Reference & Study Guides
Pass Your Exam the FIRST TIME with these Exam Prep Combos:
 

>> Master Electrician Exam Prep     >> JourneyMan Electrician Exam Prep
 

#91856 02/09/05 08:40 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 162
C
Member
George I'm sure you know this but I will list for the forum.

600.3 Listing.
Electric signs and outline lighting — fixed, mobile, or portable — shall be listed and installed in conformance with that listing, unless otherwise approved by special permission.

In some cases the components with in the sign are listed and the enclosure must be evaluated by the AHJ.

In our area most of the sign companies hold a masters electricians license, In Mass thats a contractors license.(State Regs).

I am aware that in some cases the inspectors will visit the place of business where the signs are assembled, but all to often the signs are up before the Inspector arrives.

Hope that helps

Charlie

edited for spelling


[This message has been edited by cpal (edited 02-09-2005).]

#91857 02/10/05 10:44 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,313
Likes: 7
Member
George:
Here in my areas of NJ the 'sign' must have a UL label.
As to the sidewalk inspection; 99.9% not a chance in hexx. They are up when we get the call.
'Signs' (boxes/channel letters) are usually not a 'problem', it's the NEON work (outline lighting & 'skeleton neon') that's the problem children.

BTW, do you have the mysterious midnight sign & neon guys in your area, or are they a NY metro area anomoly?? Leave a strip mall at 3:00PM, happen back at 7:30AM, and 'poof' there's a new neon install!!

John


John
#91858 02/11/05 12:59 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,507
G
Member
The motive behind my question was to find out if there were any cases where the sign was not Listed but was- "approved by special permission."

The reason for a sidewalk inspection in my jurisdiction would be to assure that it's Listed before it is installed. We all know that a sign company can't label a sign in the field per UL guidelines.

Another reason would be for inspection of workmanship and code compliance with Article 600 NEC.

Riding in a bucket is okay when you are inspecting a field installed outline lighting sign but IMHO a box sign or raceway mounted sign should get a sidewalk inspection.

As for "special permission" - in lieu of "Listed" it ain't gonna happen on my watch.

[This message has been edited by George Little (edited 02-11-2005).]


George Little
#91859 02/11/05 02:01 AM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 25
D
Member
George, I think that one requirement speaks volumes. Just by requiring a sign to be listed, the NEC has added a whole series of standards to the requirements for a sign that might otherwise need to be inserted into the language of the code such as UL 48 or UL 1433.
Signs installed in our jurisdiction are required to bear a listing mark. As for sidewalk inspections, we usually don't get called for the inspection until we send the cotractor a notice of violation reminding him he has to get his sign inspected.


Link Copied to Clipboard
Featured:

Tools for Electricians
Tools for Electricians
 

* * * * * * *

2020 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2020 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
Lostazhell
Lostazhell
Bakersfield, CA (Originally Orange Co.)
Posts: 1,438
Joined: February 2004
Top Posters(30 Days)
Popular Topics(Views)
297,562 Are you busy
228,372 Re: Forum
213,249 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5