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Joined: Jan 2003
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Interesting thread. [Linked Image]

IMO any structure we supply with electricity we also must provide a disconnect. There are a few exceptions like light poles and signs.

We do not supply electricity to the utility owned poles, it is up to them to require a disconnect or not. [Linked Image]

Once you leave this utility owned pole the first structure supplied on the premises would need a service disconnect switch.

A customer owned pole that simply carries the overhead line further in IMO is not a structure being supplied by electricity.

A meter pedestal on the other hand IMO is being supplied by electricity. The meter uses electricity to operate.

A structure is "That which is built or constructed." IMO a meter pedestal is a structure and would need a disconnect at it.

I have got to run but I will get back with some NEC sections. [Linked Image]

It would be great to hear some other opinions on all this.

Have a great day all. [Linked Image]

Bob


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
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When installing a meter pedestal remote from a one family dwelling (except mobile homes)IMO...I don't see the need for a disconnect at a meter pedestal. What need would a disconnect serve at a meter pedestal? A disconnect at a building or structure is a means of safely disconnecting the power supply to the premises wiring system. I don't believe it was the intent of the code to require a disconnect for pedestal meter. If the POCO sees a safety issue they can require a manual bypass in the meter housing.

shortcircuit

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Shortcircuit

Quote
I don't see the need for a disconnect at a meter pedestal.

I agree with you, considering the meter would likely be on the supply side of the disconnect per the power co.

But as always we have to decide which of these we are discussing. [Linked Image]

1)What many of feel is safe?

2)What is required by the NEC?

3)What is required by the local AHJ?

4)What was the intent?

My posts (I like to think [Linked Image] ) are based on the NEC sections.

I also understand each area has certain ways of doing things that work for them. [Linked Image]

Back to the NEC. [Linked Image] The rules in the NEC are fairly consistent about disconnecting means for any equipment we supply power to.

Appliances, motors, HVAC, services, separate buildings or structures etc.

Quote
230.70 General.
Means shall be provided to disconnect all conductors in a building or other structure from the service-entrance conductors.

(A) Location. The service disconnecting means shall be installed in accordance with 230.70(A)(1), (2), and (3).

(1) Readily Accessible Location. The service disconnecting means shall be installed at a readily accessible location either outside of a building or structure or inside nearest the point of entrance of the service conductors.

Given that location requirement and the NEC definition of structure IMO the NEC requires a disconnect at the meter pedestal.

Just my read of this, glad to hear other views.

Bob


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 345
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Let's apply some common sense here folks.
Do we install a disconnecting means at a front yard pole light? Do parking lots have disconnects on their individual light poles?

The critical point here is were the state public utility regulatory authority has set as the demarcation point. Regardless of who supplied or installed the metering equipment it is not subject to the NEC unless it is on the customer side of the demarcation point. The State regulatory agency is the only organization that can set the break between the NESC and the NEC. In the vast majority of overhead services the State will identify the splices between the drop and the Service Entry Conductors as the demarcation point. There is quite a bit of variation on were the demarcation point for underground services will be but it is consistently on the customers premise. In general no utility company wants the customer or their agents to be doing work on their poles.

The only property I know of were there is a requirement for a switch at a pole were a meter is located is the requirement in 547.9 Electrical Supply to Building or Structures from a Distribution Point. The definition of Distribution Point is found only in the agricultural buildings chapter. If there was in fact a generalized requirement for a disconnect at poles thy correlating committee of the standard would have required that the language be in the sections covering services or outside feeders and branch circuits.
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Tom H


Tom Horne

"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous for general use" Thomas Alva Edison
Joined: Jan 2003
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Tom you bring up a good point.

Quote
Do we install a disconnecting means at a front yard pole light? Do parking lots have disconnects on their individual light poles?

No we do not install disconnects at each pole but they are still required to have disconnecting means. [Linked Image]

There is an exception that allows the required disconnecting means to be located elsewhere.

2002 NEC
Quote
225.32Exception No. 3: For towers or poles used as lighting standards, the disconnecting means shall be permitted to be located elsewhere on the premises.

And another for signs.

Quote
225.32Exception No. 4: For poles or similar structures used only for support of signs installed in accordance with Article 600, the disconnecting means shall be permitted to be located elsewhere on the premises.

IMO you would need an exception in 230.70 similar to the above exceptions for feeders to exempt the meter pedestal from the 230.70 requirements.

OR you have an AHJ that reads it differently. [Linked Image]

Services are installed in many different ways across the country all from the same NEC. [Linked Image]

The one on my house is typical here but would not pass in CA, and a CA service would not pass here. [Linked Image]

Bob


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 220
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Member
I just had a talk with the local POCO. They said if it was direct burial cable, it needs a disconnect. If the lateral is in conduit, no disconnect required. They couldn't really say why, just" Those are our rules, and they where approved by the state". Well, its cheaper for me, so I am not complaining, but I just hate an NEC issue that I feel is unsettled.

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