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#89199 09/19/04 09:11 PM
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Okay guys, "within sight" means to "be visible and not more than 15 m (50 feet) distant from the other" direct quote- not very confusing to me. The Maintenance disconnect for a spa or pool must meet this requirement. 680.12. I find no pervision for an exception such as "lock out- tag out" This maintenance disconnect is not to be confused with the Emergency switch talked about in 680.41 required for other than residential installations.


George Little
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#89200 09/19/04 09:17 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
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harold,
thanks for the reply.

you said:

"Now lots of spas/hot tubs have a switch or circuit breaker mounted right inside the tub by the motor and that should count as the disconnect."

This is generally NOT accpetable in my area because SOMETIMES there is NO EASY access if the disco is BEHIND an access panel or skirt..

I have seen these units and I always insist on a seperate disco...might be a plug or a breaker etc..

in an emergency you would not have time enough to remove a cover or panel...you need access to a HANDLE or SWITCH or PLUG..

-regards

mustang

#89201 09/19/04 09:39 PM
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Mustang- it doesn't say that the Maintenance Disconnect is used for emergency type situations. The switch that is located on the spa, under the skirt of the spa satisfies the "Maintenance Disconnect" requirements. There is no requirement for an Emergency switch unless the spa is in other than a residential installation. The Maintenance Disconnect under the skirt of a typical spa certianly is within sight of the motor and is allowed there by 680.22(C) because of the barrier of the spa skirt. A person could locate a disconnect not less than 5 feet from the spa if the wanted to, but it is not a code requirement.


George Little
#89202 09/19/04 10:17 PM
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Geo,
thanks for the replies. I see where your coming from but I am not the inspector. They want a SWITCH or DISCO for the HOMEOWNER to be able to shut the unit down if need be.

I always try to exceed the code requirements where I can. This is a place where it would pay off.

The SWITCH can be a single pole mounted LESS than five feet if it is for this use..

thanks for pointing out the difference

-regards

mustang

[This message has been edited by mustangelectric (edited 09-19-2004).]

#89203 09/25/04 05:00 PM
Joined: Feb 2002
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Mustang,

Ask the inspector what the code section you are in violation of? As I said, if the job was a commercial, then you would have to have an Emergency Disconnect, But for a residential spa, and Emergency Disconnect is NOT required. You just need a disconnect for the motor within 50 feet and within sight of the motor.

#89204 09/26/04 08:11 AM
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680.12 Maintenance Disconnecting Means.

This disconnecting means is required, and also has to follow:
680.22 (C) Switching Devices
Switching devices shall be located at least 5 feet horixontally from the inside walls of a pool...

The switch under the cowling of the Hot Tub is not permitted as the maintenance switch.

Lets not forget 110.22 Identification of Disconnecting Means. [Linked Image]

Pierre


Pierre Belarge
#89205 09/26/04 05:01 PM
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Pierre- I respectfully disagree with the statment that the switch under the skirt can not be used for the maintenance switch required by the code. Why can't it? And if it's not acceptable for this use, what is it for? And since it's allowed there because of 680.22(C), why is it there? I hope others will add their comments.


George Little
#89206 09/26/04 07:35 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
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Hello George
Thanks for respectfully disagreeing [Linked Image], that is another good part of this forum.
Because the skirt is screwed into place, the switch is not accessible [as per Art 100 - Accessible (as applied to equipment)].

Pierre


Pierre Belarge
#89207 09/26/04 08:05 PM
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Now I'm left with the question - What kind of maintenance will be done that would require the disconnecting of the electrical to the spa? If the maintenance requires opening or removing the section of the skirt around the spa I stand by my orginial comment.


George Little
#89208 09/28/04 02:34 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 26
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George,

I'll give you a specific example of why a service tech would need to kill power to a spa, for service reasons, when they were not pulling the main motor access panel.

Our spa has a "lounge seat" with 6 solenoid-operated valves. The valves feed water to jets clustered at different body points (feet, legs, lower back, etc.). The solenoids are controlled by a little computer which allows you to sequence the jets in various combinations.

We've had a problem with the valves leaking. I actually believe the solenoids were over-actuating and causing leaks that way. This past repair trip I forced the replacement of both the valves and solenoids.

The solenoids are connected to a single junction/circuit box. These solenoid/valve combinations and the control box are accessed by pulling the access panel off at the corner of the spa where the back of the lounge seat is. This is NOT the main motor, pump and control access panel. The tech had to replace and rewire the solenoids and sure wanted the power to the spa off.

Other info - this is an indoor spa and the "disconnect" is a maintained contact, mushroom-head push button that operates a contactor. The contactor is located next to the panelboard in the basement and is fed by a GFI-breaker. The PB is on a wall near the spa, just beyond 5' from the inside of the spa.

Rob

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