ECN Forum Forums Code Related Discussion NEC & other Code issues disconnect at detached garage

Sorry I have not gotten back to this.

by tdhorne

Tom I am not deputing that but what article requires that? 110.3(B)?

Is there a panel that can not be backfed and why?

by Buck33k

Buck I do not see how this changes anything, the overcurrent protection can be (and usually is) taken care of at the panel the feed originates from.

shortcircuit What I was trying to get at but was in to much of a hurry to get across before.

1)You could install a main breaker panel.

2)You could backfed a main lug panel, with a secured breaker and following Tom's post.

3)If you can live with 6 circuits or less you can install a main lug panel, fed it from the lugs and use the 6 or less breakers as the disconnecting means. They will not have to be secured because they are not back fed.

Remember the 225.31 does not require the panel to be shut down only the conductors.

Bob

Thanx for your interpertations everyone...they have all shed light on the issue.
So if the 20 circuit panel is installed with only 6 branch circuit overcurrent devices, it does'nt require a main disconnect...untill the next electrician comes along and wants to add another circuit, then he must install a main breaker to comply with 225.31

Yes that is correct looking at it from just a code standpoint you can install the 20 circuit panel with only 6 breakers and be code compliant.

It would be up to the next person not to violate the code.

I respectfully disagree with the blanket statment of allowing 6 mains in this panel. We need to look at 408.14(A) and 408.16(A) and decide if we are limited to a maximum of 2 mains.

Sorry -Meant to include 408.14, which is the classification of panels.https://www.electrical-contractor.net/ubb/icons/icon12.gif

George

I disagree. The overcurrent protection of this panel is the feeder breaker at the house. The overcurrent protection is permitted to be in the panel or anywhere on the supply side of the panel. The only issue here is the number of disconnects permitted. As the others have said you can not have more that 6 breakers in this panel unless a main breaker or other disconnect is installed. The disconnect could be a non-fused switch.

Curt

Thats where I went wrong in my post. The garage is fed from the house with OCP. If Shortcircuits garage had its own service and the six breakers were the only disconnect, then 408.16(B) would apply. Hope I got it right this time!

Curt- Your correct. I owe you a donut and coffee. Next time your in a Krispy Kreme have one on me. :-)
I was thinking along the lines of providing overcurrent protection for the panel.

WARNING - I don't have my Code with me, so I can't look this up myself. Apologies in advance for possible idiot factor.

The garage isn't operating under independent service... it's being fed from an OCP inside the house.

With one throw of the hand, you can D/C everything by turning the 60A in the house off, correct? (and secure by LOTO since no line-of-sight if needed)

So why would this still fall under the "6-throw" limit, if _not_ fed by a service separate fro the house?

Doug I like the clear warning.

This application is covered in Article 225 Outside Branch Circuits and Feeders.

225.31 is the section that requires a disconnect and 225.32 tells us where the disconnect has to be. The disconnecting means shall be either inside or outside at a readily accessible location nearest the point of entrance of the conductors. There are also some exceptions but they are not applicable to a detached garage.

225.33 limits us to not more than six switches or six circuit breakers mounted in a single enclosure, in a group of separate enclosures, or in or on a switchboard as the disconnecting means.

Bob