ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Recent Posts
by renosteinke - 01/27/23 09:52 PM
Does NEC 551.71 (F) apply to dwellings?
by BigB - 01/20/23 10:46 AM
Power submeter connections
by HotLine1 - 01/19/23 09:09 AM
AFDD's coming to the UK
by Texas_Ranger - 01/17/23 07:22 PM
New in the Gallery:
Burger King crown sillyness
Burger King crown sillyness
by wa2ise, December 11
240/208 to a house
240/208 to a house
by wa2ise, October 9
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 18 guests, and 10 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 26
rlrct Offline OP
Homeowner's sitting in their weekend cottage and turns on the ceiling fan this past weekend. Fan suddenly stops working - blown fuse. Trace it to low voltage on 1 incoming leg (25 v). LOPOCO comes, pulls the meter. Sure 'nuff, one of the clips in the meter base wasn't tight enough and the connection heated. You can see the discoloration on the underground service lateral where the aluminum conductor heated up. Need to replace the meter base. It turns out the entire service through and including the panelboard will need to be replaced. Why?

The GES, which consists of (1) 1/2" ground rod and a single armored grounding wire (looks like #10), is bonded to the meter base. From the meter, SE cable runs to a 100 amp disconnect. From there, old SE cable runs to the original, screw-in fuse panelboard. There is an unfilled hole in the fuse panel for the original service disconnect where the panel was "converted" from 3-wire service equipment to a 3-wire subpanel. There is an armored grounding cable that runs to the copper water pipe where it's attached within 5' of the water service entrance with a standard, tagged and labelled, clamp. Unfortunately, that conductor to the water pipe is only satisfying 250.104, because about a foot to the right of the clamp, the copper transitions to PVC where it's PVC to and through the foundation.

So, we have:
  • a 100-amp service, with
  • a panelboard with no isolated ground which should be 4-wire,
  • fed by SE cable with no grounded conductor,
  • where the uninsulated grounding conductor is current carrying and connects to
  • a GES which is undersized for the service.

BTW, loads include electric range with double oven, hot water heater and dryer.

Was it ever code-compliant to run just a 3-wire feed from the SD to a panelboard, where the bonding was at/before the SD? Sort of doesn't matter, because the whole mess is being corrected now, but I am curious about the code from the early 1970's when this was done.


[This message has been edited by rlrct (edited 06-14-2004).]

[This message has been edited by rlrct (edited 06-14-2004).]

Stay up to Code with the Latest NEC:

2020 NEC & Related Reference & Study Guides
2020 NEC & Related Reference & Study Guides
Pass Your Exam the FIRST TIME with these Exam Prep Combos:

>> Master Electrician Exam Prep     >> JourneyMan Electrician Exam Prep

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 345
If the service disconnectting means is not located in or on the building were that panel is mounted it would still be lawful today to run a three wire cable as the feeder as long as there are no parallel conductve paths betwen the two locations.
Tom H

Tom Horne

"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous for general use" Thomas Alva Edison
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 26
rlrct Offline OP
This is a single family residence. The service disconnect is on a basement wall (within 5' of the meter). The panelboard is about 12' away on another basement wall.

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 751
In my experience it never has been allowed by code.

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 46
IMO the service disconnect should be considered the main,and the 12' away panelboard should be considered a subpanel and be fed with a 4 cond. cable i.e. SER with a bonded ground bar and a seperate isolated nuetral bar.

Link Copied to Clipboard

Tools for Electricians
Tools for Electricians

* * * * * * *
2023 National Electrical Code (NEC)
2023 NEC Now Available!
* * * * * * *

2020 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2020 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman


Member Spotlight
Posts: 27
Joined: December 2004
Top Posters(30 Days)
BigB 8
triple 3
Popular Topics(Views)
302,673 Are you busy
231,947 Re: Forum
216,607 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5