ECN Forum Forums Code Related Discussion NEC & other Code issues Need opinion

Electricmanscott- You are correct, So having heard all the opinions, I have decided that I'm sticking with the high standards of the IAEI and the NECA / NEIS Standards. If you do work in Michigan be prepared to comply with these standards If the rest of you in other states want a standard below that go for it. I'm out of here.

GREEN SCREW WITH A WHITE STRIPE! i had an electrician wanna be ask me "a wire to the box?what for?i'll settle for a wire with any screw(no sheet metal)threaded to any hole (designated ground,clamp hole)and sleep real good,thank you.like escott said.

I'm curious if the state of Michigan has accepted those standards?? or is it just a personal thing?

Edit:

BTW, nice dig.


[This message has been edited by walrus (edited 05-19-2004).]

George,
You can do anything you want on your jobs, but, as an inspector, you cannot enforce these standards unless they have been legally adopted by a governmental unit. To do otherwise would subject you and the AHJ to a civil lawsuit.
Don

George: Are you familiar with the following terms?

1) Malicicous prosecution
2) Assualt
3) Hardship
4) Tort


If no, I would highly suggest getting a copy of "Legal Aspects of Code Administration". It explains very well the legal implications involved with what you and I do for a living. It was well worth my 25 bucks to get it. Perhaps your building offical already owns a copy...anyway, check it out, you may find it interesting.

This topic should really be split into several threads:

1) Good practices that are not _required_ by code.

2) Legal aspects of code enforcement.

3) Is a standard machine screw acceptable as the grounding screw (this thread)

On 1) There are many good things that electricians in this forum will do, and will always do, even though code does not require it. These are things that inspectors are powerless to _require_. An example is the use of 'red heads' (anti-short bushings) on MC cable in MC cable fittings.

On 2) Remember that the NEC is _not_ law. The NEC itself is simply a list of recommendations and opinions, and in some sense has no more legal weight than Ryan's daughter It is only when the NEC is adopted by the appropriate authority that this opinion begins to count and have weight of law. If the appropriate authority adopts a _different_ code (eg the IAEI codes), or adopts amendments, then these other opinions will have weight of law. It is entirely possible that a _green grounding screw_ is legally required in some places, but not in others.

On 3) My opinion only is that any machine screw with a sufficiently large head is sufficient. A 'small form' screw with a reduced head diameter may not be appropriate, no matter what the screw thread. Devils advocate: take a look at the head profile of screws that are specifically for grounding. There is clearly a bit of a concave section that helps pull the wire into the head. Most other screws that I see do not have this head profile.

-Jon

Do I know about: 1) Malicicous prosecution 2) Assualt 3) Hardship 4) Tort? Yes, I also know about misfeasances, nonfeasances and malfeasances. Been in court many times. Always as the plaintiff. Perhaps I could have used a better choice of words when I said "adopt the Standards of NEIS" I forgot that these "Standards" are indeed legally adoptable. No Michigan has not adopted them. I sat on committee to have the '02 NEC adopted and I can tell you that we had a long hard struggle just getting the Builders to accept AFCI's. I can about imagine how they would feel about adopting the NEIS Standards. I could have said- I choose to look at the IAEI or NEIS as examples of professionalism that one could emulate. Maybe you guys wouldn't get so cranked at me :-(

George: I can't speak for everyone, but I for one am not upset with you. I think disagreeing about the code is a great way to learn it. If you don't agree with I have to say, I think you should argue it.

Howdy:

It just so happens that UL agrees with those of us here who have not accepted the clamp screw threaded hole for the termination of the "Equipment Grounding Conductor" or "Pigtail Equipment Bonding Jumper."

How many of you will come back and say: "You were right"?

Remember that questions of this type have been asked many times before, sometimes even before the new kids and fledgling inspectors, and young journey-persons were even born!

When you too become a Senior in the future, and we "old guys" are gone, you'll remember how we tried to warn you, but that will come with time. Hot Dog!!

I do see where some "old guys" here are still with their personal opinions, and that's OK too!

This is fun, and "Yooperscoop: will have the last laugh I am sure!

PS: I just turned some old code books into $500.00, now I can buy a new toy!!

Joe,
Can you cite a source for that statement? I'd like to read it. Thanks.
Don