ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
ShoutChat Box
Recent Posts
Where is Everyone?
by gfretwell - 11/27/20 06:18 PM
Happy Thanksgiving
by gfretwell - 11/26/20 08:52 PM
Insulated Tools: A Waste of Money?
by HotLine1 - 11/26/20 12:28 PM
Ground fault remover :-)
by NORCAL - 11/26/20 08:13 AM
Work Gloves?
by sabrown - 11/25/20 01:54 PM
New in the Gallery:
Facebook follies, bad wiring
FPE in Germany pt.2
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 17 guests, and 15 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Article 408.15 #87841 04/22/04 03:38 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 24
D
Doug Scott Offline OP
Member
I have a 30 circuit 100 amp MB panel. Have a total of 36 cicuits installed using 7 piggyback breakers. Was kicked down on inspection for overloading the panel. Panel does not state that piggyback breakers cannot be used.
Would this fall under Article 408.15 (2002)?
Doug

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: Article 408.15 #87842 04/22/04 03:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
I
iwire Offline
Moderator
408.15 will not kick in until you get to 42 breakers (43 with your main)

Quote
Panel does not state that piggyback breakers cannot be used.

It shouldn't it has to tell you how many are allowed if any.


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
Re: Article 408.15 #87843 04/22/04 04:09 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 939
F
frenchelectrican Offline
Member
may i join in this one ??


ok i did look at the NEC 96 edition. old art. 384-15

" Number of overcurrent devices on one panelboard"
Not more than 42 overcurrent devices [other than those provided for in the mains] of a lighting and appliance branch-circuit panelboard shall be installed in any one cabient or cut out box.
A lightingand appliance branch-circuit shall be provided with physical means to prevent the installation of more over current devices than that number for which the panelboard was designged, rated, and approved.


so in my option here most imporat part that should read the breaker box label for listing for the numbers and types of breakers that approved for that usage

if i am off track let me know then i can correct my mistake here.

merci, marc

p.s. i did look at my french electrical codes and they say the same thing too.


Pas de problme,il marche n'est-ce pas?"(No problem, it works doesn't it?)

Re: Article 408.15 #87844 04/22/04 07:38 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 32
S
Sparkeee32 Offline
Member
I would like to know the theoretical loads these circuits might have. For instance, are you running lots of 20 amp circuits, electric heaters, hot water heater, electric range.... or is everything gas, and you just have alot of lighting circuits? I have a feeling this is not about the # of breakers in the panel, but the size of all the conductors and the ampacities flowing through the said breakers. Some more specifics would be nice! Thanx! Brian!

Re: Article 408.15 #87845 04/22/04 07:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
I
iwire Offline
Moderator
Sparkeee24, you can have as many breakers as you want on a feeder, all that matters is the calculated load.

I have a 126 - 20 amp breakers on a 3 phase 225 amp triple tub panel at the job I am doing now, added up that would be 2520 amps. [Linked Image] In reality it is drawing a total of 150 amps (50 per phase)


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
Re: Article 408.15 #87846 04/23/04 12:39 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 558
C
caselec Offline
Member
Doug, if possible please post the catalog number of the panel.

Curt


Curt Swartz
Re: Article 408.15 #87847 04/23/04 06:13 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 650
W
winnie Offline
Member
I seem to recall somewhere a panel that was rated for a certain total rating of all of the breakers attached to it. I don't remember which, and I don't see why (if the calculated load and the feeder rating is less than the ampacity of the bars, who cares what the total of the CB ratings is), but if that is the listing, then that is the listing.

I have also seen panels where the instructions specifically limited the total rating of CBs connected to a single stab on the bus. This is more reasonable, since the rating of the stab might be less than that of the entire bus.

-Jon

Re: Article 408.15 #87848 04/23/04 04:04 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 201
CharlieE Offline
Member
You are permitted to use all the spaces in a panelboard in accordance with its listing. If you have a 20/40 panelboard, you may use all the spaces and all of the circuit breakers may be ½" breakers. [Linked Image]


Charlie Eldridge, Indianapolis Utility Power Guy
Re: Article 408.15 #87849 04/26/04 04:21 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 681
P
PCBelarge Offline
Member
This is a listing and labeling issue - 110.3(B). If the label lists this panel for a maximum of 30 ckts, that is all that is permitted. Reading the label will tell you if you are permitted to have more than 30 ckts (breakers).

Pierre


Pierre Belarge

Featured:

2020 National Electrical Code
2020 National Electrical
Code (NEC)

* * * * * * *

2020 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2020 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
RonKipperDatacom
RonKipperDatacom
Kansas City, KS
Posts: 30
Joined: January 2013
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
Trumpy 9
Popular Topics(Views)
272,057 Are you busy
205,954 Re: Forum
194,003 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3