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Wires in canopy? #87499 03/13/04 10:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,507
G
George Little Offline OP
Member
I've always enforced the need for a properly sized J-box for splicing fixture wires to the branch circuit conductors and not permitted the installer to rely on the canopy for this purpose. Am I wrong?


George Little
2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: Wires in canopy? #87500 03/14/04 08:44 AM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,286
electure Offline
Member
Up to 4 #14 or smaller fixture wires aren't counted in box fill anyway, so a box that is properly sized for the branch circuit conductors is sufficient. See 314.16 (B)(1) Exception.

410.10 Space for Conductors
Canopies and oulet boxes taken together shall provide adequate space so that luminaire (fixture) conductors and their connecting devices can be properly installed.
The italics are mine.

Re: Wires in canopy? #87501 03/14/04 03:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,507
G
George Little Offline OP
Member
Thanks for your insight. I guess I'll will take a different view of this subject thanks for the code reference. I still am kinda nervous about allowing someone to install a 3" pan box with two 14/2 w/g for connection of a luminaire. I think I'll ask him for some specs on the proposed fixture, I'm sorry, luminaire.


George Little
Re: Wires in canopy? #87502 03/14/04 04:27 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 558
C
caselec Offline
Member
George

The exception that Scott (electure) posted above applies to the fixture wires not the branch circuit conductors. Using a 3/0 pancake box with even one 14-2 NM cable is a violation unless the box is extended with an extension ring or canopy that is marked with its cubic inch capacity. I have never seen a fixture canopy that has been marked with its capacity. A single 14-2 NM cable would require a minimum of 6 cubic inches if an external clamp is used or 8 cubic inches if an internal clamp is used. A 3/0 pancake has a 4 cubic inch capacity. Two 14-2 NM cables would require 10 cubic inches with internal clamps or 12 cubic inches with internal clamps.

Curt


Curt Swartz
Re: Wires in canopy? #87503 03/14/04 10:17 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,374
R
Ryan_J Offline
Moderator
When I inspect I allow (1) 14-2 NM cable in a 3-0 pancake box. I realize that it is not permitted, but I also realize that sometimes that is the only way you can go about the installation. I will not, however, allow (2) 14-2's or (1) 12-2.


Ryan Jackson,
Salt Lake City
Re: Wires in canopy? #87504 03/23/04 09:01 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 189
T
triple Offline
Member
Actually, electure, those four fixture wires you refer to have to be SMALLER than #14 (not "14 or smaller") in order to avoid using them in fill calculations. See: 314.16(B)(1)

Re: Wires in canopy? #87505 03/24/04 06:33 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 457
J
Jim M Offline
Member
Ryan,

Why don't they use 4" pancake boxes instead of the 3". I have only seen the 3" on very old work like K&T. Is this a regional thing?

Re: Wires in canopy? #87506 03/24/04 07:37 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,374
R
Ryan_J Offline
Moderator
Hi Jim. I wish I could answer your question, but I'm afraid that it is a question I also ask. I can't figure it out. :0


Ryan Jackson,
Salt Lake City
Re: Wires in canopy? #87507 03/26/04 11:56 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 681
P
PCBelarge Offline
Member
If the installation of a 4 inch canopy on a 3 inch box is performed where the surface is combustible, it is a violation of 410.13.

Pierre


Pierre Belarge
Re: Wires in canopy? #87508 03/27/04 11:53 AM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,286
electure Offline
Member
Triple,
Thank You! Sometimes I suffer from "Hoof in Mouth" disease.

Smaller than #14...S


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