ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
ShoutChat
Recent Posts
How's Florida doing with Hurricane Ian?
by Bill Addiss - 09/28/22 12:41 PM
Tough being a lineman's kid
by Bill Addiss - 09/28/22 12:39 PM
GFCI's pops in large numbers
by dsk - 09/26/22 04:35 AM
AFCI’s Revisited
by sparky - 09/24/22 09:58 AM
NFPA Price Increase Coming
by Bill Addiss - 09/23/22 02:22 PM
New in the Gallery:
240/208 to a house
240/208 to a house
by wa2ise, October 9
Now you know.
Now you know.
by Tom_Horne, September 7
Who's Online Now
1 members (Scott35), 25 guests, and 13 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
#86704 11/23/03 08:56 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 92
G
gserve Offline OP
Member
In a mobile home the other day I saw a tandem breaker (20A/30A)where the 20A outside Breakers that are connected by a handle tie were feeding 2 separate 120V circuits(not multiwire).I removed the handle tie so that if 1 circuit trips the other won't. Did I do the right thing? These breakers are designed for 2 separate 240V loads.

Stay up to Code with the Latest NEC:


2020 NEC & Related Reference & Study Guides
2020 NEC & Related Reference & Study Guides
Pass Your Exam the FIRST TIME with these Exam Prep Combos:
 

>> Master Electrician Exam Prep     >> JourneyMan Electrician Exam Prep
 

#86705 11/23/03 09:32 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,067
Likes: 3
Member
gserve,

If the breaker says common trip they'll both trip with or without the handle.

This is from a Siemens Catalog showing 2 different types:

[Linked Image]

Personally, I don't think one of the outside breakers would trip the other unless they were common trip.

Bill


Bill
#86706 11/24/03 08:09 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 92
G
gserve Offline OP
Member
Bill, These are not common trip it says so on the breaker it is a Cutler-Hammer type BR breaker.

#86707 11/24/03 11:07 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,067
Likes: 3
Member
If the circuits are unrelated I don't see anything wrong with removing the handle.

Bill


Bill
#86708 11/24/03 01:24 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,081
T
Member
Bill:

Is the breaker designed such that the handle can be removed with out changing the UL listing (in other words, is the equipment being modified by removing the handle)?

#86709 11/24/03 01:29 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,374
R
Moderator
TG: I think that perhaps 110.3(B) has been violated, but I would never dream of red-tagging it. It is my understanding that breakers are required to be "atoumatic trip", meaning that they will open the circuit regardless of the handles position. With that in mind, I see no problem removing handle ties.

You do have a valid point, however.


Ryan Jackson,
Salt Lake City
#86710 11/24/03 08:57 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,313
Likes: 7
Member
Ryan:
Yes, it may be a "technical" violation for removing the handle tie, and yes, I would not red-tag it either, unless the cb was installed in violation of the panel "label"

Basically this type of cb is 'used' to add additional circuit capacity to a panel, and if it's a 16 circuit panel, this baby wouldn't fly.

John


John
#86711 11/25/03 10:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18
I
Member
If you remove the handle the breaker is no longer "listed" and becomes a violation!

[This message has been edited by Inspector Grump (edited 11-25-2003).]

[This message has been edited by Inspector Grump (edited 11-26-2003).]


Larry

Link Copied to Clipboard
Featured:

Tools for Electricians
Tools for Electricians
 

* * * * * * *

2020 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2020 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
MarkC10
MarkC10
CA, Inland Empire
Posts: 43
Joined: September 2013
Top Posters(30 Days)
dsk 3
Popular Topics(Views)
297,686 Are you busy
228,470 Re: Forum
213,324 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5