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Maybe HotLine1 could post the part about the plans, etc., here that are in the NJ Uniform Construction Code?
I didn't look at the new Article 80 in the NEC, but i'll bet there is something there for us to look at.
Sparky, How would a Bill be introduced in your State?
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
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Sparky, How would a Bill be introduced in your State? short of activism, how would it in any state? i'd really like to read and/or hear about some of our trade associations taking a political position, otherwise how can one gian advocay?
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Joined: Nov 2002
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Doing plan review, we receive a substantial number of "homeowner" permit applications, ranging from installing a receptacle, to pools, to service changes, and everything in between.
The homeowner is required/requested to submit a "sketch" with some basic pertinent info on what they propose to do. Some get it "right" I'm just a homeowner, so: A year or so ago, here in northern NJ, I visited town hall and saw the electrical inspector at his office. Showed him a sketch (not on a brown paper bag) of what I wanted to do and asked a few code related questions. He said that I didn't need to go as so far as to use AC (BX) cable, but it would be okay. Rough inspection only thing I missed was the green wire pigtails one should have to connect the metal boxes to the green ground screw on outlets. Went and bought some, put them in, and later that day I got passed. Final inspection I passed, though he didn't like the Hubbell industrial grade outlets I used ("hard to insert plugs in"). I'm sure he inspected my work closer than that of an EC that he routinely sees the work of and knows what to expect. This was a kitchen remodel, permits cost $75 each for electrical and plumbing, and our taxes went up about $200 per year.
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Joined: Oct 2000
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Gee wa2ise, sticky receptacles?? well i guess you missed mentioning those high end hubbels in your plan review ![[Linked Image]](https://www.electrical-contractor.net/ubb/smile.gif) , sound like that $75 went a ways there though.... If anything else this forum has shown me, it's the amazing disparity the electrical trade has in the USA. The trade associations seem particularly moot on this (you fella's better connected feel free to correct me)sooner or later, if a doctrine is not universally accepted and enforced as such it simply becomes another of those 'spittin' on the sidewalk' legal trivialities.... I've seriously considered dropping out of the IAEI over this, what's the use? meanwhile my 02', usually sun bathing on my dashboard has the ordacity to claim itself 'international' ![[Linked Image]](https://www.electrical-contractor.net/ubb/rolleyes.gif) the gall.
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Joined: Feb 2002
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Joe,
I agree with John. As an AHJ, if a contractor comes in with a permit for a new kitchen, I wouldn't be too worried about plans. Most times I know the contractor and his work. They know the code and it is correct ( Maybe a small problem) on the rough inspection. If a homeowner walks in the door, I ask for a skecth, (Like John said.) So that I help the homeowner (HO)get it right on paper, so that when I go out on rough inspection, he has the job done correctly. I will try to help the HO get the work layed out correctly and ask him if he/she has any questions. As for big jobs, there is usually a set of prints in the GC's trailer. If there are any questions, I tell the electrical contractor (EC) to check the print. What does the print call for? Or what does the Arch/ or EE call for? If it meets NEC, then we follow the print.
HE
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Harold,
Monday I rejected plans for a new house in Irvington. The arch's plans called for a 3/8" ground rod, had no outside lighting by doors, outlets missing in kitchen and bathrooms,and outlets in the garage marked (but GFI protected). Sometimes get better drawing on paperbags!
Larry
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Joined: Apr 2002
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Grump & everyone else:
I didn't delve into the "pro" plans....
Oh yeah, there are good ones that the review goes thru smoothly, and there are bad ones. Then there are "nightmares", & "bad dreams". Had one architect come into the office at least 12 times, & they still can't do a load calc right. Never mind the panel schedules, & everything else for 20 offices.
And a note to the HO's, we will assist you, but by LAW we cannot design your jobs.
John
John
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Joined: Jun 2002
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From original post... "The "As Built" drawings are not usually available until after the job, and are they also required to be made available to the AHJ and are also public records."
The public record phrase caught my eye...
If I want to rob my local bank, could I go to the city and examine the plans for the bank?; assuming of course they pulled a permit and had a plan review.
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Let call them "construction Documents" instead and look at your States requirements here: Minnesota Rules, Table of Chapters
Table of contents for Chapter 1300
1300.0130 CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS.
Subpart 1. Submittal documents. Construction documents,
special inspection and structural observation programs, and
other data shall be submitted in one or more sets with each
application for a permit.
Exception: The building official may waive the
submission of construction documents and other data if
the nature of the work applied for is such that
reviewing of construction documents is not necessary
to obtain compliance with the code.
The building officer may require plans or other data be
prepared according to the rules of the Board of Architecture,
Engineering, Land Surveying, Landscape Architecture, Geoscience
and Interior Design, chapter 1800, and Minnesota Statutes,
sections 326.02 to 326.15, and other state laws relating to plan
and specification preparation by occupational licenses. If
special conditions exist, the building official may require
additional construction documents to be prepared by a licensed
design professional.
Subp. 2. Information on construction documents.
Construction documents shall be dimensioned and drawn upon
suitable material. Electronic media documents are permitted to
be submitted when approved by the building official.
Construction documents shall be of sufficient clarity to
indicate the location, nature, and extent of the work proposed
and show in detail that it will conform to the code and relevant
laws, ordinances, rules, and regulations, as determined by the
building official.
Subp. 3. Manufacturer's installation instructions. When
required by the building official, manufacturer's installation
instructions for construction equipment and components regulated
by the code, shall be available on the job site at the time of
inspection.
Subp. 4. Site plan. The construction documents submitted
with the application for permit shall be accompanied by a site
plan drawn to scale, showing the size and location of new
construction and existing structures on the site, distances from
lot lines, the established street grades, and the proposed
finished grades, and it shall be drawn according to an accurate
boundary line survey. In the case of demolition, the site plan
shall show construction to be demolished and the location and
size of existing structures and construction that are to remain
on the site or plot. The building official may waive or modify
the requirement for a site plan if the application for permit is
for alteration or repair or when otherwise warranted.
Subp. 5. Examination of documents. The building official
shall examine or cause to be examined the accompanying
construction documents to ascertain whether the construction
indicated and described complies with the requirements of the
code and other pertinent laws and ordinances.
Subp. 6. Approval of construction documents. If the
building official issues a permit, the construction documents
shall be approved in writing or by stamp, as "Reviewed for Code
Compliance." One set of the construction documents that were
reviewed shall be retained by the building official. The other
set shall be returned to the applicant, kept at the site of the
work, and open to inspection by the building official or an
authorized representative.
Subp. 7. Previous approvals. The code in effect at the
time of application shall be applicable.
Subp. 8. Phased approval. The building official may issue
a permit for the construction of foundations or any other part
of a building or structure before the construction documents for
the whole building or structure have been submitted, provided
that adequate information and detailed statements have been
filed complying with pertinent requirements of the code. The
holder of the permit for the foundation or other parts of a
building or structure shall proceed at the holder's own risk
with the building operation and without assurance that a permit
for the entire structure will be granted.
Subp. 9. Design professional in responsible charge.
A. The building official may require the owner to
engage and designate on the building permit application a
licensed design professional who shall act as the licensed
design professional in responsible charge. If the circumstances
require, the owner shall designate a substitute licensed design
professional in responsible charge who shall perform the duties
required of the original licensed design professional in
responsible charge. The building official shall be notified in
writing by the owner if the licensed design professional in
responsible charge is changed or is unable to continue to
perform the duties.
The licensed design professional in responsible charge
shall be responsible for reviewing and coordinating submittal
documents prepared by others, including phased and deferred
submittal items, for compatibility with the design of the
building.
When structural observation is required by the code, the
inspection program shall name the individual or firms who are to
perform structural observation and describe the stages of
construction at which structural observation is to occur.
B. For the purposes of this part, deferred submittals
are defined as those portions of the design that are not
submitted at the time of the application and that are to be
submitted to the building official within a specified period.
Deferral of any submittal items shall have the prior
approval of the building official. The licensed design
professional in responsible charge shall list the deferred
submittals on the construction documents for review by the
building official.
Submittal documents for deferred submittal items shall be
submitted to the licensed design professional in responsible
charge who shall review them and forward them to the building
official with a notation indicating that the deferred submittal
documents have been reviewed and that they have been found to be
in general conformance with the design of the building. The
deferred submittal items shall not be installed until their
design and submittal documents have been approved by the
building official.
C. Work regulated by the code shall be installed
according to the reviewed construction documents, and any
changes made during construction that are not in compliance with
the approved construction documents shall be resubmitted for
approval as an amended set of construction documents.
STAT AUTH: MS s 16B.59; 16B.61; 16B.64
HIST: 27 SR 1471
Current as of 03/26/03
Who robs banks in Minnesota anyway!
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
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The Younger Brothers,Sept. 7 1876, Northfield Minnosota. ![[Linked Image]](https://www.electrical-contractor.net/ubb/biggrin.gif)
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