ECN Forum Forums Code Related Discussion NEC & other Code issues Electrical Inspections by 3rd Parties?

Let me add another 2 cents here. In NJ all lic. contractors must have 10 hours of CEU's to renew their licenses every 3 years. As an electrical inspector ( depending on their ICS,HHS, subcode official and/or construction offical license.) we have to take 3 to 5 five hour courses every three years to renew our inspectors license. The point I am trying to make is that our state MAKES us keep our nose in the NEC. We can't get away from it. Before the state made us take CEU's, I knew of some old timers who wouldn't open the book to make sure that they are wiring a job correctly. Even if one a job that they never did before. Now that was scary.

Due to the large amount of construction where I work as a municipal inspector, we hired a third party agency to do inspections for a few weeks, mostly mechanical and electrical. I asked that the third party handle certain types of inspections for electrical such as roughs. But my boss said to schedule them all types.

When I went back to reinspect a failed service inspection, the items that were written on the inspection report were taken care of, but several other items were missed and I had to fail the job again. They were only small items...a missing main bond screw and a ground clamp that wasn't tightened at all.

I'm sorry, but inspectors can take all the tests they want but they will never be truly qualified to inspect systems they do not have experience installing. the code does not teach you how about a million different parts go together properly.

Steve T

They were only small items... A Missing main Bonding Jumper (screw) and a loose ground clamp!!!

Let's be sure to understand that these are MAJOR CODE VIOLATIONS!!

Your Comment:


AMEN!! SO TRUE!!

Steve, doesn't your building department have a hit list of "must inspect" items? A lot of agencies have a prioritized list of things which must be inspected (especially when times are hectic) and evaluations of the inspectors are based on how well they catch these items (or how badly they miss them!). I'm thinking that even if the inspection duties are outsourced, that there would still be a laundry list given to them so that their priorities matched your prioritites.

Cubby:
Remember that eventually you will have to deal with your "favorite" inspector again, unless he quits, or you move to another location.
Like Harold said. respect has to be given on both sides.
Personally, I feel that all inspectors should have "field" experience, and unfortunatley that is not a prime requirement. (You cannot "test" field exp< I mean "hands-on" down & dirty, in the treenches. Harold is a "field" man, so am I, but there are a few who are "book" guys.
Lets stay calm.......
John

Hotline1:
I don't want to get into the story behind this, but suffice it to say this person cost us about a week changing things to suit his whim(yes, whim), and then the city inspector returned and we had to change things BACK to CODE to pass.
If it had been my decision (not the GC and his money) I would have left things the right way and had it out with the inspector. He was arrogant and abusive about my work to the GC (I was elsewhere) and then I was unable to contact him for an explanation. Respect works both ways, I am not an amateur, I am a professional and this inspector is not. (IMHO)
I can usually stay cool about almost anything, but this level of incompetence really sets the blood-a-boilin', it makes me look bad. (although in the end the GC knew)

Nothing personal intended with this rant, but everybody here seems like a professional and I hope you can understand the frustration.

As far as working with this particular person again, I will simply ask that he give me a thorough explanation of any and all deficiencies including all applicable Code references, and be available for follow-up questions. And when he can't (pretty certain), we'll have a little more to talk about.

Thanks for letting me whine

Cubby:
I get the drift of what you mean now....
Spending a week "doing whim things" would boil my blood also.
We have a system here in NJ, the Construction Board of Appeals, that EC's can take AHJ's to for "problems". (Seems to be working good) I don't know what area you are in, but "whims" do not a violation make here. If there is a violation, NEC Article must be cited.
Also, comments about the EC's work are unprofessional from the AHJ, when they are made to "others".

Sounds to me like this guy is a project manager type, or an "owners rep", from your comment that you had to put everything back to pass city inspection.
John

Cubby,

This time I am going to agree with John. As an AHJ I spent many years in the field and I have delt witht those A**holes Having Hurisdiction. That was one reason I got my own inspectors license. So that when an arrogant inspector said,"Well in MY TOWN, I want it like this." Well that was BS and I would tell the inspector (In a very calm, cool way.) Where is that in the code book? Here in NJ when I fail a job, I have to cite CHAPTER and VERSE of the NEC where it is in the code book. Well to tell you the truth 9 times out of 10, the EC looks at me and says. "Whoops! I guess I missed that one. I will fix it." So the do, and I don't have to give the complete section. They know when they did wrong. I also agree with John, that if it is a minor infraction, I wouldn't stop the whole job. I would let them continue to insulate the house (Especially this time of the year with the cold temps.) and I too would come back on my next normal day in that town. Sometimes I come back the next day if it is on my way.

Ezapper,

I once made a list of the top ten violations for different jobs. ( Rough, final and service inspections, etc.) If I can fin them I would post them if anyone is interested. It does seem like I can carry my top ten lists and 90% of the jobs that fail always fail for the same things. Just different jobs and different contractors. Most of the times it winds up being either a lazy helper, or the job is rushed and something was overlooked.

Joe,

I am sorry, but I don't know how to be sarcastic in writing. Yes I know those were major and that's why I mentioned it.

If an inspector tells you to do something that is absolutely wrong and you can show them where it says so, I would not change something to a non-compliant installation because when someone gets hurt guess who gets sued and guess who has tort immunity.

I would get his boss on the phone if he is a hardhead.

Unfortunately, no we do not have a good complete check list. I have created several diagrams that showed things that contractors make constant mistakes on, but I can't believe someone who is doing inspections misses the first thing that should be checked. (I take that back, I believe it. What I don't believe is that you can make a living protecting people when you don't know what you're doing.)