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#81499 08/24/02 08:24 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 717
I use the Don Rickles school of foreign language..........."If you speak English loudly enough, everyone understands it" [Linked Image]

As for me, the contractors in the DC area use a LOT of Latino/Mexican help, we even have to provide Spanish interpreters for our safety meetings.

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#81500 08/27/02 11:29 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,392
PS: How many of you have served as a committee member in any capacity?

perhaps Joe, you could enlighten us here.

Is this by invite only?

#81501 08/27/02 02:19 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
..."If you speak English loudly enough, everyone understands it"

Hey George, that's the same principle that most Brits use when going on vacation in Europe! You forgot the bit about speaking s-l-o-w-l-y as well as loudly though! [Linked Image]

I'm still studying the NEC, but in general, if a code is perfect, why does it have to be revised every few years? I don't dispute that there are sections added to our (U.K.) code which have improved safety. I've also seen things added which don't seem to make much difference one way or the other, and I've seen changes which in my humble opinion are a retrograde step (e.g. an increase in the allowable ampacities of cables).

Where I think it gets silly is when suggestions are made to incorporate things to guard against something that only a grade-A idiot would do. "Somebody might stick his fingers in the light socket while in the bath," springs to mind. I think we need to draw the line somewhere.

[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 08-27-2002).]

#81502 08/27/02 09:27 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,749
Go to: and search for thr NFPA Technical Committee Membership Application

[This message has been edited by Joe Tedesco (edited 09-09-2002).]

Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
#81503 08/28/02 05:09 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 127
My theory is that most non-English speaking people here in the States use the same system as dogs and children. They understand you when it is to their advantage. Actually, I believe that pets, who have nothing else to do than lay around listening to human conversation and observing the actions of humans really understand every word we speak. They are too smart to let us know it. If we knew our pets could understand everything we say, we would expect them to do more chores than merely bringing slippers and papers. They see the results of children becoming "intelligent".

Gerald Powell

#81504 09/09/02 07:15 PM
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 308
If it's so great in Mexico, why do millions of Mexicans try to cross the border every year. We have a code because we DON'T want to be like Mexico.

Until most electricians wise up, or better yet, states require a license to do electrical work, electricians will not make a quarter in the business. All the smart land owners, developers, architects, and GCs beat them down because they allow themselves to be beat down.---I'll do it for $100 less, I'll do it for $200 less....etc.
I'm a relatively young guy and I have seen hundreds of electrical companies come and go. Have you ever heard a doctor say I'll operate on you for 10,000 less? Or a lawyer say I'll work for 25 an hour less than the other guy?

Or for that matter a doctor say I'll tell you whats wrong with you for free and then give you a price to fix it?

Is being an electrician so simple that individual licensing should not be required? If it is then I am the slowest person in the world because I've been in the trade for 17+ years and am just starting to feel like I have learned enough to know I'll never learn it all.

The rich are getting richer and the poor poorer. I think electricians are destined to be in the latter group unless something changes.

The NEC is put together by a lot a people and is probably the best form of true democracy you'll find in any document any where in the world.

Perfect? No. Ever? Doubt it. The best code/law ever written? I think so.

Just imagine if our laws could be changed without the red tape it takes to change them with every ordinary average Joe having a say so or the ability to submit revisions. Big business may have less impact on the small guy.

These are the things our forefathers fought for. To prevent the few ruling elite and assure freedom for all.

I think the NEC is great.

God bless the USA!!!

#81505 09/12/02 10:28 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 518
Getting back to the original question: lots of home in the Third World DO burn or fall down; nor is it all that rare for entire neighborhoods to be devastated. COmpare the death toll in any third-world hurricane or earthquake to an equivalent US disaster. They lose thousands; we lose one or two.
Yes, I also question the self-serving positions taken by some code advocates- but, I can't help but wonder how many lives are saved by our codes.
Evidence to the effectiveness of codes can be seen in the differing insurance rates around the US, which are often related to the local codes. No code or AHJ= high rates. Even if fuse boxes are still NEC legal, try getting fire or mortgage insurance without upgrading to 100-amp circuit breaker service!

#81506 09/13/02 01:03 AM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 141
elecbob Offline OP
Right on Steve! The next time I email my nephew sitting on an aircraft carrier in the Red Sea I'l thank him for fighting to defand the NEC and protecting my right to install AFCI's.
Following is a newspaper article about a guy that went up in a manlift to get a better view of the Blue Angels:
Sun Aug 4/11:43 am: Officer Verhoff writes: "I was working uniformed patrol with my partner Officer Montaron when all of a sudden the sidewalks became filled with a mass of obviously distraught people. They were yelling and pointing toward the 1500 block of E Harrison St. We stopped and got out of the car to investigate. I saw a large blue boom lift that appeared to be on fire. The top of it was located near some electrical wires approximately four to five stories off the ground.... I [then] saw a burning man lying motionless on the ground beside the boom lift. I heard one citizen say, 'Don't touch him, he is wired.' I heard another citizen say, 'He was electrocuted.' Another citizen said, 'He fell from the boom, his head was on fire.' While I requested assistance from the Fire Department, Officer Montaron and Wong attempted to extinguish the fire [on the burning victim] with fire extinguishers. They were successful. Fire Department arrived on the scene and transported the victim to Harborview Medical Clinic.... Officer Gerry later notified me that the victim had been pronounced dead at the HMC." According to a witness, these were the last words of the unfortunate man--a painter at his first day on the job: "My boots are melting."

#81507 09/13/02 06:14 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,392
who should the NEC accomodate?

It would seem it cannot fully susbscribe to the general , or any one faction of the populace....

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