ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
ShoutChat Box
Recent Posts
Questioning the electrical norms
by LongRunner - 09/23/20 06:38 AM
Smoke & mirrors?
by HotLine1 - 09/21/20 03:42 PM
Pool Lights?
by Papa - 09/18/20 05:26 PM
Ever been afflicted by Gout?
by mbhydro - 09/15/20 05:50 PM
120/208 gives 240? please clarify
by NORCAL - 09/13/20 01:08 AM
New in the Gallery:
Facebook follies, bad wiring
FPE in Germany pt.2
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 16 guests, and 16 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Metal building bonding?? #81178 07/17/02 09:44 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 178
R
Reel-Break Offline OP
Member
We`re wiring a metal buiding well it has metal skin on outside and the frame work is wood.The question is what is the proper way to bond the skin to ground. Why can`t the mounting screws that hold the meter base be the bond? ajh says no a separate bonding arrangement must be made. Thanks

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: Metal building bonding?? #81179 07/17/02 10:38 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 717
G
George Corron Offline
Member
Reel,
OK, you've got a metal skin, no structure whatsoever (metalically) goes to ground right? Then bonding it is not indicated by the code anymore than houses with aluminum siding have a separate bond strap going to them, nor the metallic face of foil insulation is bonded. No matter what you do, it's painted and will not conduct. Gonna create a heck uva capacitor though, PaulUK and I could create some danged interesting experiments with it [Linked Image]

Re: Metal building bonding?? #81180 07/17/02 02:00 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,749
Joe Tedesco Offline
Member
See the 2002 NEC, Section 250.116

(FPN) Where extensive metal in or on buildings may become energized and is subject to personal contact, adequate bonding and grounding will provide additional safety.

2002 NECH Commentary: Because metal siding on buildings is not electrical equipment, it is outside the scope of the Code [see 90.2(A)].

Therefore, the Code cannot require that it be grounded. Quite often, however, luminaires, signs, or receptacles are installed on buildings with metal siding that could become energized.

Grounding of metal siding reduces the risk of shock to persons who may come in contact with the siding.

NOTE: See 90.5


[This message has been edited by Joe Tedesco (edited 08-18-2002).]


Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
Re: Metal building bonding?? #81181 07/17/02 07:35 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 717
G
George Corron Offline
Member
Joe,
The only way to correctly apply a bond to metal siding would be to remove the protective coating from between the sheets. I would throw an electrician off my job for altering the structure. The (probably) metallic method of mounting those light fixtures should prove sufficient for the bond.

Re: Metal building bonding?? #81182 07/17/02 08:49 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,389
S
sparky Offline
Member
George,
you mean that each piece of siding would need to be 'bonded', or paint removed from them for them to bond?

that's sort of a stretch...

Re: Metal building bonding?? #81183 07/17/02 11:48 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 717
G
George Corron Offline
Member
Negative Sparky, that is an exaggeration. The code does not allow us to bond to something unless we remove any protective coatings. We all know the reason is that it is NOT bonded if it goes through paint/powder coating/rustproofing etc.. Since these siding type panels are all rust coated/painted, and the BOCA/manufacturer would (properly) have a fit if 'sparkies' decided to remove that coating, the deal is "we CAN'T bond it properly". The only way it would properly be bonded is if each piece were attached to a metal structure, and we are certainly required to bond the metal structure. In this case, we have NO metal continuity from piece to piece, so bonding can not practically be accomplished. You would only succeed in bonding the one piece you attached your GEC to and likely really foul up the UL rating of the panels.

Re: Metal building bonding?? #81184 07/18/02 10:32 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
P
pauluk Offline
Member
Hey George, I can just hear it now.

"Honey, I need to get the resonant frequency a few kilohertz higher. Would you go outside and pull off another sheet of siding?!" [Linked Image]

On a more serious note, aluminum siding on houses is extremely rare over here, but a similar situation arises with mobile homes (or "caravans" as they are called here). We are required to bond the structural metalwork to the electrical ground, but not the individual sheets making the outside walls. As has been stated above, to securely bond every piece would require paint to be cleared and/or separate bonding to each sheet.

Re: Metal building bonding?? #81185 07/18/02 06:27 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 717
G
George Corron Offline
Member
Paul,
EXACTLY what I was thinking [Linked Image] I was going to come up with a resonant freq for the skin, could be one terrific experiment. I just tore down an old metal shop I've had for a long time and replaced it with a new wooden shop or I would be 'sperimenting. [Linked Image]

Re: Metal building bonding?? #81186 08/18/02 07:15 AM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 103
J
jes Offline
Member
There ARE words in various building codes to the effect that large amounts of exterior metal skins (siding, roofs...) need to be grounded. Problem I have found is that no one can show me a Listed device or system to do it. The problems cited in the other posts are valid. Never seen a metal skin system intended to be electrically continuous with any significant current carrying ability. Seen several with lightning strike damage and the results show that casual contact points blow clear. The lightning protection people might have something but it WILL be expensive!

Re: Metal building bonding?? #81187 08/18/02 01:05 PM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
H
harold endean Offline
Member
Iv'e inspected a job where the contractor had a hot tub under a deck. The siding of the house was metal, (AL siding) so he bonded all the metal that was within 5 feet of the spa. That was quite a trick but if I remember correctly he ran a #8 cu up along side the corner channel and connected the indiviual pieces.

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Featured:

2020 National Electrical Code
2020 National Electrical
Code (NEC)

* * * * * * *

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
mxslick
mxslick
Atomic City, ID USA
Posts: 803
Joined: October 2004
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
Trumpy 8
NORCAL 3
Popular Topics(Views)
270,008 Are you busy
204,410 Re: Forum
192,622 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3