ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Shout Box
Recent Posts
SCADA interview questions and answers 2019
by niamishra. 10/17/18 03:26 AM
DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SCADA AND HMI: AUTOMATION ACRON
by JoeTestingEngr. 10/17/18 12:51 AM
PLC/HMI Enclosure C2, D1
by ghost307. 10/16/18 03:31 PM
Tingle off the water spigot
by dsk. 10/15/18 02:36 PM
Board tester power supply?
by JoeTestingEngr. 10/13/18 12:14 AM
New in the Gallery:
What is this for?
Plug terminals
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 29 guests, and 28 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Bonding Copper Water Lines #81064
07/04/02 04:06 PM
07/04/02 04:06 PM
sparky66wv  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,236
West Virginia
What size conductor should I use to bond the copper water main line? I'm using two ground rods on one continuous #4, and it is unknown on the length of the pipe outside of the home, so the connection is merely a "bond" rather than an electrode... I've still connected within 5 feet of the entrance with a listed pipe connector, but I've used #6 rather than #4. It is a 200 Ampere 120/240 Volt Residential Dwelling Service.

Should I pull the #6 and replace it with #4?

Guess 250.66 just has me perpetually confused...

[Linked Image]


-Virgil
Residential/Commercial Inspector
5 Star Inspections
Member IAEI
2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: Bonding Copper Water Lines #81065
07/04/02 06:02 PM
07/04/02 06:02 PM
R
resqcapt19  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
IL
Sparky,
For the water pipe, it doesn't matter if you are using it as a grounding electrode or just bonding it. The conductor is sized by the size of the service entrance conductors and Table 250.66. Fo a 200 amp service, #4 is the miminum for the connection to the water pipe and if your service entrance conductors are larger than 3/0 you would have to use a #2. The connection to the ground rod is never required by the code to be larger than #6. See 250.66(A).


Don(resqcapt19)
Re: Bonding Copper Water Lines #81066
07/05/02 02:08 PM
07/05/02 02:08 PM
sparky66wv  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,236
West Virginia
If I'm using 4/0 Al, I can use #4 Cu, right?

I didn't know if the "rod, pipe or plate" part in 250.66(A) let me use #6 or not, 250.52(A)(1) Doesn't specify size...

250.53(C) points to 250.66, but I guess I'm caught up in whether it is considered a "pipe" electrode...

Remember, I have to tear out and replace something that most don't bother doing in the first place here... So, is #4 Cu OK, or do I have to use #2???

The #6 will get yanked but now I don't know whether to buy #4 or #2 Cu to replace it.

If I have to use #2, please show me how to arrive at the answer for future reference.

Thanks,
-Virgil


-Virgil
Residential/Commercial Inspector
5 Star Inspections
Member IAEI
Re: Bonding Copper Water Lines #81067
07/05/02 03:32 PM
07/05/02 03:32 PM
R
resqcapt19  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
IL
Sparky,
4/0 aluminum service entrance conductors require a #4 copper to the water pipe. The "pipe" electrode refered to in 250.52(A)(5) and 250.66(A)is a section of pipe driven into the ground like you would drive a ground rod. It is not a metal underground water pipe. This section, 250.66(A),only permits a reduced size grounding electrode conductor for what was called a "made" electrode in previous codes. That would be a driven rod, driven pipe or burried plate. The connection to the interior metal water piping system and the metal underground water piping system, if any, must always be sized per Table 250.66.
My reference to #2 would only apply if the service enetrance conductors were larger than 3/0 copper or 250 aluminum.
Don


Don(resqcapt19)
Re: Bonding Copper Water Lines #81068
07/06/02 12:22 AM
07/06/02 12:22 AM
sparky66wv  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,236
West Virginia
Thanks Don, all clear now!

[Linked Image]

(Got plenty of #4 Cu, and it's only a 15 ft. run)


-Virgil
Residential/Commercial Inspector
5 Star Inspections
Member IAEI

Featured:

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
Grover
Grover
Sebago, ME, USA
Posts: 109
Joined: January 2005
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
sparky 11
Popular Topics(Views)
250,329 Are you busy
187,955 Re: Forum
177,491 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1
(Release build 20180101)
Page Time: 0.022s Queries: 14 (0.003s) Memory: 0.9698 MB (Peak: 1.1074 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2018-10-17 12:29:45 UTC