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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 23
A
AC Offline OP
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Regarding not putting kitchen lights and outlets on the same circuits, does that apply only to the countertop GFCI outlets, or also to general purpose convienence outlets on walls away from countertops and anything wet?


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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 60
J
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Not sure if I understand your post correctly. But any recep in the kitchen/dining are must be gfci protected. As for the lighting run a seperate circuit for it. As I am sure you will agree most clients/customers want there kitchens bright. Its better practice to run a seperate circuit just for that...


[This message has been edited by JMichael (edited 06-10-2002).]

Joined: Nov 2000
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210.52(B)(1-3)

The only thing you can have with the small appliance circuits is a clock and the timer, light, and igniter for a gas-fired stoves, ranges, cooktops, and ovens.

220.16(A) does not give permission to put the kitchen lights on the small appliance circuits, but merely to include the small appliance circuits in the demand load factors.

[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 06-10-2002).]


-Virgil
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JMichae,
Quote
...But any recep in the kitchen/dining are must be gfci protected.
Not true, GFCI protection is only required for the receptacles that serve the countertop.
Don


Don(resqcapt19)
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 60
J
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I gotta read the NEC one of these days.. [Linked Image] I am so used to the AHJ setting the standards.. In the Hamptons (Long Island, New York) The dining room also needs to be 20 amp GFCI protected. It can come off of the kitchen receps. But the dining room needs 2-20 amp gfci protected circuits. This is mainly due to the use of hot plates in the dining area's.

James

Joined: Nov 2000
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Quote
...GFCI protection is only required for the receptacles that serve the countertop.
Yep, 210.8(A)(6).

(Uh, I didn't realize that either..)

[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 06-10-2002).]


-Virgil
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G
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I believe that the code requires: a minimum of 2 recept circuits for the kitchen (and related areas) and a minimum of 2 recept circuits for the kitchen counter.

A total of 2 recept cicruits can serve both of these requirements.

If a third circuit is present and does not serve the counter top area, it may serve light fixtures also.

Like others have said, it is perhaps not the best of practice to have lights on the kitchen area circuits in any case.

Joined: Nov 2000
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Gerorge,
Quote
If a third circuit is present and does not serve the counter top area, it may serve light fixtures also.

I don't think so. Look at 210.52(B)(1). This section requires that all receptacles in the kitchen and related areas that are required to be installed by 210.52(A) or (C) be on the 2 or more small applinace branch circuits.
Don(resqcapt19)


Don(resqcapt19)
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 11
S
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210.52.B is very clear in that any receptacle in the kitchen or dining room ( in either (A)general or (C) counters)MUST be on a small appliance branch circuit there must be at least 2 of these but may be many more.
Also they shall have NO other outlets except clock or for a gas kitchen appliance.
I feel that it is very clear that lighting may NOT be on any branch circuit with receptacles in any kitchen,pantry,breakfast room,dining room or similar area of a dwelling unit.

tom

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 93
M
Member
I have been taught, and it has always been my understanding that section 210.52b(1), only requires a total of two small appliance branch circuits for the entire kitchen/dining/etc. area combined. Not that it would be wise to only provide two for the entire area in most cases, but nevertheless still compliant.

Section 210.52b(2) makes it clear that these two or "more" small appliance branch circuits shall have no other outlets (with two exceptions). The way I see it, the word "more" in this sentence makes it clear that "all" receptacle circuits in these areas have no other outlets.

Matt

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