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#80818 05/30/02 02:18 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 7
L
Junior Member
Would you pass this if you were an inspector?
I am going nuts reading the 99'nec, & 2000 Michigan Residential Code.
I have a new 100amp Siemens panel that says if used as service equipment, I can land the grounds on the nuetral bar in the (approved order?). But to make sure I pass inspection, should I put an equipment grounding bar and separate the grounds and nuetrals so the MBJ ties the nuetral and equipment grounds through the can? I can't think of any reason they should be separate because it is always going to be the first main...but I want to make sure I pass on this the first time.
[Linked Image from mywebpages.comcast.net]

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#80819 05/30/02 05:08 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,392
S
Member
Lance1990;
The MBJ is where all Nuetrals, EGC's
( Equipment grounding conductors) must meet. The GEC ( Grounding Electrode Conductor) can be made to the nuetral anywhere from the weatherhead to the MBJ, but is usually dictated by the poco.

If the EGC bar where to be isolated from the nuetral in this situation, nothing would trip on a g-fault.

Think of electrickity as a circle....

#80820 05/30/02 06:24 AM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
R
Member
Looks OK to me.

#80821 05/30/02 07:59 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 7
L
Junior Member
Sparky, thanks for reply...
I couldn't really tell if you were giving it the ok or not. You said that the MBJ is where the noodles and ECG's must meet, but all this MBJ would be doing is tying the nuetral bar to the can if I have all the ecg's landed on the split nuetral bar. I think it is a better electrical connection for fault, but maybe he won't pass it if the nuetrals and ecg's have to be tied together by the MBJ like you said. I'll cross my fingers..

#80822 05/30/02 09:22 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 558
C
Member
Lance - Yes you can terminate your grounds and neutrals on the neutral bar in this panel. If your going to have quite a few circuits in this panel you might want to add a ground bar to terminate some of you equipment grounds on so you don't run out of holes but leave the two #6 on the neutral buss.


Curt Swartz
#80823 05/30/02 12:20 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,081
Likes: 3
Member
Lance,

Quote
Sparky, thanks for reply...
I couldn't really tell if you were giving it the ok or not

I wonder that same thing myself sometimes .. [Linked Image]

Bill

[This message has been edited by Bill Addiss (edited 05-30-2002).]


Bill
#80824 05/30/02 06:58 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,527
B
Moderator
If the main service disconnect/overcurrent device is located in the panel in the sketch, I'd buy it.

#80825 06/08/02 09:27 AM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1
L
Junior Member
Just to be a bit of a nitpicker, the 2 connectors for the SE cable should be listed for use with SE cable, and you probably need 2 ground rods. Also it would eliminate a possible weak link in the GEC chain if you just put the water ground ahead of the meter (closer to where it comes in from the slab), then the plumbers in the future will not be as likely to disconnect, and more importantly ASSURE THAT THEY RECONNECT it, if working on it in the future .

#80826 06/08/02 12:11 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 7
L
Junior Member
[b]Thank you all for the input[b]
This house was built about 1940, and had no grounding whatsoever. It is all copper-clad. I was really expecting to have some breakers trip when I put in the new service, but none did. I should have taken a picture of the old 50amp service. I don't know if two rods are required here. The last time I did residential work was 1991. I am a little behind on code, and had I known this is being done, I would have put one in to make sure. I'm not too fond of the connection quality of the standard ground clamps to pipe & rod. I hope in the future there is exothermic welding(cadweld) required. Thinking along those lines....can we reduce the resistance to ground so much that we won't even notice if we lose the nuetral to the power company, and have a constant fault?

#80827 06/16/02 12:40 PM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 345
T
Member
"Thank you all for the input
This house was built about 1940, and had no grounding whatsoever. It is all copper-clad. I was really expecting to have some breakers trip when I put in the new service, but none did. I should have taken a picture of the old 50amp service. I don't know if two rods are required here. The last time I did residential work was 1991. I am a little behind on code, and had I known this is being done, I would have put one in to make sure. I'm not too fond of the connection quality of the standard ground clamps to pipe & rod. I hope in the future there is exothermic welding (cadweld) required. Thinking along those lines....can we reduce the resistance to ground so much that we won't even notice if we lose the neutral to the power company, and have a constant fault?"

In some soil conditions, especially along salt water coast lines, this could happen. Keep in mind that the quality of the grounding at both the source and the load will effect the likelihood of this occurring. One place that this practice is done deliberately is in telegraphic fire alarm signaling. The grounding at each telegraphic transmitter is improved until you can successfully signal via ground return in the event of a break in one side of the circuit.


Tom Horne

"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous for general use" Thomas Alva Edison

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