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#80314 03/27/02 09:46 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,236
Member
Used to be, I'd put bedroom and bathroom lights on a circuit, the receptacles in the bedroom on a circuit and the bath GFCI on a dedicated circuit. Now with AFCI's entering the picture, I've opted to have the bedroom lights on the end of the receptacle chain for cheaper AFCI protection, and now the vanity and vent-fan/light combos are all alone...

My question is:

It appears that 210.11(C)(3) Exception gives me the leeway to put said vanity and fan/light with the GFCI circuit... just to have 210.23(A) Exception take it back away from me...

Is this a code loop or am I just really tired tonight?

If this were a T&M job rather than one grossly underbid (again?!?), it would be moot...

Another question in same vein...

Let's assume I can't put the lights with the rest of the bath circuit. Two basins in the bathrooms pretty much dictate two receptacles. I'm allowed to combine them on a circuit, but with the 1875W hair dryers and the habit of some ladies to have the curling iron warming up as she blow dries the hair... well you get the picture...

If it were T&M, again I would give them two GFCI's dedicated.



[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 03-27-2002).]


-Virgil
Residential/Commercial Inspector
5 Star Inspections
Member IAEI
2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
#80315 03/27/02 09:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,457
E
Member
My understaniding is that you must wire a 20 amp circuit for the gfi which can also serve other loads within that bathroom only. Also if there are two sinks and the gfi is within 36 inches of both of them you really only need one.

#80316 03/27/02 10:09 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,042
Likes: 3
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Virgil,

I don't think the Curling Iron is a problem. What is the wattage on those?
I've only got 15A circuits and 5 Females around My House and have never tripped a Breaker. (No, not FPE [Linked Image])

Bill


Bill
#80317 03/28/02 05:54 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,389
S
Member
AFCI's have everyone changing and or challenging methods....a 'backburn'scenario
[Linked Image]

I believe the 210.11 EX overrules 210.23 EX, we may get into a 'NEC style' interpetation though....as for ampacity 210.23 and the 50-80% rules appear.....(2)'s dual reference to lighting units is confusing here......

(1) Cord-and-Plug-Connected Equipment. The rating of any one cord-and-plug-connected utilization equipment shall not exceed 80 percent of the branch-circuit ampere rating.
(2) Utilization Equipment Fastened in Place. The total rating of utilization equipment fastened in place, other than luminaires (lighting fixtures), shall not exceed 50 percent of the branch-circuit ampere rating where lighting units, cord-and-plug-connected utilization equipment not fastened in place, or both, are also supplied.

#80318 03/28/02 08:24 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,042
Likes: 3
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Virgil,

I just looked at 2 items this morning. The Curling Iron was 38W and a Straightener was 170W. Not near enough to warrant another circuit.

Sparky,

Quote
(1) Cord-and-Plug-Connected Equipment. The rating of any one cord-and-plug-connected utilization equipment shall not exceed 80 percent of the branch-circuit ampere rating.
If you can figure out how 1875W Hair Dryers get away without having a 20A plug please tell us. [Linked Image] That one really gets me.

Bill


Bill
#80319 03/28/02 09:47 AM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,236
Member
Thanks guys, a wealth of knowledge as always...


-Virgil
Residential/Commercial Inspector
5 Star Inspections
Member IAEI
#80320 03/28/02 07:10 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,389
S
Member
Bill,
lobbyists.......

[Linked Image]

#80321 03/28/02 10:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 218
S
Member
Bill, I have the same problem. Just bid a beauty shop and they have 2 stations on a 20 A breaker with a 1850 hair dryer at each one and both used at the same time ocassionally. They must use a different way to figure amperage than P=IV.

#80322 03/29/02 05:59 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,389
S
Member
Quote
They must use a different way to figure amperage than P=IV.
same as vacuum cleaners?........

Quote
5 Females around My House

come clean here Bill... when have you had the opportunity to view a hairdryer up close???
[Linked Image]



[This message has been edited by sparky (edited 03-29-2002).]

#80323 03/29/02 07:04 AM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,457
E
Member
Hey bill, what kind of curling iron do you use, and how is the hair staightener working out for you? [Linked Image]

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