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#79187 12/02/01 12:42 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 599
Nick Offline OP
Article 700(9)(d) (’99 code) lists acceptable methods of protecting and emergency feeder in occupancies over 1000 and buildings taller than 75ft. in certain occupancies. Sub section 1 lists fully sprinklered buildings as one of the choices. This was relaxed from the ’96 codes requirement that the feeder itself be sprinklered, for instance in the ceiling space or chase that it runs through.

How many buildings are being built these days without fully automatic sprinkler systems? Especially buildings of this occupancy? I have a meeting at our shop on Wednesday and one of the things we are doing attending a product demonstration of a listed circuit integrity cable that also meets this requirement. I think this vendor is trying to sell us something we don’t need due to the fact that all buildings these days are fully sprinklered. (Unless of course the job specs require it) What do you think?

I do realize the AHJ must approve the fire suppression system for this purpose. How many jurisdictions won’t accept this method of protecting the feeder?

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#79188 12/02/01 02:00 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,723
Likes: 1
Broom Pusher and

I have worked on a few multifloor buildings with only Standpipes. No Sprinklers anywhere!

These were in LA County and Orange County.
The last one I worked on was in LA County, in 1999.

These were built in the 1960's.

All I have seen which were built from 1970's and on, have fully Automatic Sprinkler Systems.

Maybe if your firm runs across some of these old legacy buildings, it would help to have access to cables from that vendor.

I'm sure you will agree with this one - have you seen ANY Commercial structure built in the last 10 - 15 years that didn't have Sprinklers? I'm trying to think of one, but doesn't seem likely!
Even the older ones - like older stripmalls or Office suites without sprinklers prior to T.I. / Remodels, were designed to include FLS - Sprinklers as part of the complete Construction project.

Scott SET

P.S. How's everything going on your end?
Got any new CAD work to submit? [hint-hint [Linked Image]]


Scott " 35 " Thompson
Just Say NO To Green Eggs And Ham!
#79189 12/02/01 01:16 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 599
Nick Offline OP
Things are going great! Thanks for asking. I am working on a deal to move to San Diego for two years to run the new baseball stadium.

No CAD work yet. I am still trying to come up with subjects you have not already covered.

These buildings with only stand pipes. Were you doing major remodeling or TI work? I know these exist but chances are if your doing a large enough remodel to run new emergency feeders they are probably going to be retrofitting with fire sprinklers. I don't know. I'm sure a lot of local amendments are stricter than the NEC too. The City of LA perhaps?

I think this came up because this cable was specified by the engineer at the Ford Premier job we just completed. (it's in Irvine across from the Irvine Spectrum)

We'll see what he has to say. [Linked Image]

#79190 12/02/01 11:04 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
There are many areas that do not have codes to require buildings to have sprinkler systems. Also the so called "fully sprinkled" building are rarely fully sprinkled. It is very unusual to find sprinklers protecting the concealed spaces of buildings where the cable is likely to be installed. There have been a number of fires in "fully sprinkled" buildings that have originated in the unprotected concealed spaces resulting in major fire losses.

#79191 12/04/01 11:35 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 599
Nick Offline OP
'96 NEC Article 700(c)(1)
Feeder-circuit wiring shall be installed either in spaces fully protected by approved fully automatic fire suppression systems (sprinklers,carbon dioxide systems,etc.) or shall be a listed electrical circuit protective system with a 1-hour fire rating.

'99 NEC Article 700-9(d)(1)(a)
Be installed within buildings that are fully protected by an approved automatic fire suppression system.

The '96 asks for the spaces to be fully protected. The'99 only asks for the building to be fully protected. I suppose it would boil down to the AHJ's definition of a fully protected building. [Linked Image]

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