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Has anyone used these? #7887
02/27/02 10:16 PM
02/27/02 10:16 PM
J
JohnnyB  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 33
Chicago IL USA
I'm looking for a way to switch 25-30 240vac resistive amps with no sound. Has anyone used these mercury displacement relays?
They look like just a heater and some merc, but the contacts are still there. I'm also looking at solid state, but they are high$$$$. I haven't found one to switch off of 24vac input. The purpose is to switch 5KW heaters inside a residential space where sound is a issue.

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Re: Has anyone used these? #7888
02/28/02 12:18 AM
02/28/02 12:18 AM
W
wolfdog  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 135
Dallas,TX
Used mercury relays for electric heat in a broadcast studio. They worked great and were silent.

Re: Has anyone used these? #7889
02/28/02 10:44 AM
02/28/02 10:44 AM
J
JBD  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 599
WI, USA
I just used a solid state unit from Carlo-Gavazzi (#RN1A23A25E) for $56.00. It is a 1 pole device rated for 25A @ 230VAC, the control voltage is 24-230VAC/DC. As long as you provide a 2 pole disconnect and OCPD you can use a 1 pole device for the temperature control.

A problem with solid state devices is the lack of a true off position like you would get with the mercury relays.

Re: Has anyone used these? #7890
03/02/02 04:17 PM
03/02/02 04:17 PM
electure  Offline

Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,276
Fullerton, CA USA
Mercury (Hg),
Used to be used in all of the "silent switches".
They are a self cleaning, non arcing contact, and work great.
Good luck trying to install them without some environmental troubles

Re: Has anyone used these? #7891
03/02/02 04:42 PM
03/02/02 04:42 PM
W
wolfdog  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 135
Dallas,TX

Re: Has anyone used these? #7892
03/02/02 07:18 PM
03/02/02 07:18 PM
N
NJwirenut  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 806
Bergen County, NJ
I would also recommend the mercury displacement contactor over solid-state, especially if the switch loop operating the coil circuit is of any appreciable length.

I did an installation where a bank of halogen lights was fed from 208y/120, through a 3 phase Crydom SSR. The control input rating on the relay was 24-120 VAC, and I drove it with 120 VAC, developed from a small 208/120 control transformer in the relay enclosure. The "switch loop" controlling the relay was ~ 200 feet long, consisting of 2 wires in 1/2" EMT, to a relay in a control cabinet at the far end of the run.

A few days after the installation, I received a callback stating that the lights could not be completely shut off without opening the disconnect ahead of the SSR. The lights would flicker on and off at low brightness at random intervals. A bit of troubleshooting revealed that there was a low voltage (~15 V) present across the "coil" terminals of the SSR, even with the control circuit open. Capacitive coupling between the 2 parallel wires in the switch loop, coupled with the low (milliamps) current requirement of the SSR was allowing enough potential to develop across the input of the SSR to partially energize the load. Placing a small 120 VAC incandescent bulb across the SSR "coil" provided a sufficient load to stop the problem temporarily, but a mercury displacement contactor (with a real magnetic coil) was installed as a permanent repair.

Re: Has anyone used these? #7893
03/03/02 01:10 AM
03/03/02 01:10 AM
J
JohnnyB  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 33
Chicago IL USA
Hey NJwirenut,

Wow,.....interesting. That was a capacitive reaction between the two wires? Capacitive and not inductive? The length of wire was like the coils of conductor inside a capacitor and 200' was enough to make 15v across the input terminals of the SSR, right?
Did you know what was going on right away, when you measured the 15vac?

Would using twisted shielded wire prevent stuff like that or not in this application?

Re: Has anyone used these? #7894
03/03/02 11:21 AM
03/03/02 11:21 AM
N
NJwirenut  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 806
Bergen County, NJ
I would assume capacitive, as there was no appreciable current flowing in the wires, to make the wires act like windings of a transformer.

The problem was pretty obvious when the voltage was found across the SSR coil with a high impedance DMM, but dropped to zero when a test light was bridged across the coil. The "coil" of an SSR is actually an LED, which only requires 10 mA or so to energize the relay.

Shielded wire probably would have helped, but only if the 2 wires were individually shielded from each other, and the shields were grounded. 2 wires with an overall shield (the more common configuration) would still be subject to capacitive coupling. The setup I used (2 wires in metal conduit) is equivalent to a 2-wire shielded cable. Reduces interference/coupling from outside sources, but not between the 2 conductors.

Re: Has anyone used these? #7895
03/03/02 08:41 PM
03/03/02 08:41 PM
C
circuit man  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 273
saluda,s.c.
sounds like the mercury relays listed would be the way to go. we use them in our electric heated washers.silent mostly, & pretty darn well leak proof.


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