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680-25 c&d #78231
08/30/01 06:53 AM
08/30/01 06:53 AM
S
Steve Miller  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 325
Loudoun Cty, VA
For several years and in several jurisdictions we have been installing residential hot tubs on decks as follows (all have passed inspections):
6-3 RX thru the house to a panel mounted on the exterior wall (as per 680-25c Ex3). From that point it's piped with the insulated ground.
Last week one of the jurisdictions (where we had never installed one) said that under 680-25d the tub contained a panel board and needed the insulated ground all the way back to the main service (i.e. pipe the whole thing). We maintained that the tub is a factory sealed and approved unit and 680-25c Ex3 could be applied. Well it wasn't worth the fight so we did it his way but the customer paid a premium. What's your opinion?

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: 680-25 c&d #78232
08/30/01 08:57 AM
08/30/01 08:57 AM
sparky66wv  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,236
West Virginia
Dude! I love your greatest hits album! Especially "Swing Town"...

Uh... Why is everybody laughing at me?!?!?!?

[Linked Image]

Steve, forgive me, I'm sure you get hassled about your name every day... and I'm sure I wasn't very original about it...

That's how I install 'em, NM to the disco, then PVC and THWN to the tub... The AHJ has the last word though...


-Virgil
Residential/Commercial Inspector
5 Star Inspections
Member IAEI
Re: 680-25 c&d #78233
08/30/01 05:42 PM
08/30/01 05:42 PM
electure  Offline

Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,276
Fullerton, CA USA
Since it's a listed factory unit, a call to the manufacturer might have been able to shed some light. If you use there units regularly, give it a try.

"Famous Names"
BTW, One of the owners of the company I work for, although no relation to the other, is named...Mike Holt. On one job I worked on, the GC's super was named Neil Young, and the owner's rep was named Jim Nabors..for real [Linked Image]

Re: 680-25 c&d #78234
08/30/01 07:40 PM
08/30/01 07:40 PM
R
Redsy  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
Bucks County PA
I brought this up a few times(see previous topics).
I use ENT with insulated ground instead of NM. Heres why--
680-12 requires disconnect.
680-25(d) requires panelboards and DISCONNECTS to have an insulated ground.
680-25(c) requires motors have an insulated ground, with permission for interior of single family dwellings to use NM (a chapter 3 wiring method).
680-25(d) does not include the permission for single family dwellings. Therefore, NM not allowed.

I have seen many NM installations. Apparently it's often accepted.

Re: 680-25 c&d #78235
08/30/01 08:26 PM
08/30/01 08:26 PM
sparky66wv  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,236
West Virginia
The manager at Blue Grass Electric (my supplier) is Rob Lowe!

Steve,

I meant no harm, welcome to ECN...

Doh! You mean I goofed again! Geez I'd like to get at least one hot tub install right...Man!

Thanks for straightening me out again, Redsy!

[Linked Image]


-Virgil
Residential/Commercial Inspector
5 Star Inspections
Member IAEI
Re: 680-25 c&d #78236
08/30/01 09:36 PM
08/30/01 09:36 PM
R
Redsy  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
Bucks County PA
Quote
Originally posted by sparky66wv:
Thanks for straightening me out again, Redsy!


I'm not so sure. I may be a fool for doing it my way. It's just the way I see it. (Can't see it any other way, though) [Linked Image]

Re: 680-25 c&d #78237
08/31/01 12:12 AM
08/31/01 12:12 AM
Bill Addiss  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,903
NY, USA
Steve M,

Welcome to the board !

I've always done it as you describe 6/3 wGr to a Disconnect (Panel w/ GFCI breaker) and then pipe to Tub. Never had any reason to believe otherwise.

Bill

Re: 680-25 c&d #78238
08/31/01 04:30 AM
08/31/01 04:30 AM
S
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,371
As i understand it, the theory behind insulated & isolated per 680 is in protection from other proximal ground faults crossing over to the pool ECG.

Steve, your post brings more conjecture here

welcome aboard!
[Linked Image]
Virgil, how'd you do that smiley guy???

Re: 680-25 c&d #78239
08/31/01 07:39 AM
08/31/01 07:39 AM
Bill Addiss  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,903
NY, USA
Sparky,

Don't have that one? [Linked Image]
Maybe We could import him somehow.

Bill

Re: 680-25 c&d #78240
08/31/01 11:23 AM
08/31/01 11:23 AM
sparky66wv  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,236
West Virginia
It's about time someone noticed!!!

I saved "coolie" and "biggrin" and put them in Paint , copied pasted and swore a little and made a coolgrin.jpg...

There's a coolgringrey.jpg for the darker backgrounds, they're both here at my site's addy, but it can be a pain to type!
http://www.kellyelectric.electrical-contractor.net/photos/coolgrin.jpg = [Linked Image]
http://www.kellyelectric.electrical-contractor.net/photos/coolgringrey.jpg = [Linked Image]

[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 08-31-2001).]


-Virgil
Residential/Commercial Inspector
5 Star Inspections
Member IAEI
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