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GFI Protection #7811
02/22/02 05:42 PM
02/22/02 05:42 PM
F
Frank Cinker  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 311
Pennsylvania
Would an under cabinet mounted microwave oven require GFI protection if a single receptacle were used. It's a dwelling unit application. The cabinet is above the kitchen counter.

[This message has been edited by Frank Cinker (edited 02-23-2002).]

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Re: GFI Protection #7812
02/22/02 05:58 PM
02/22/02 05:58 PM
R
rbiro  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19
Pacifica, CA USA
I'll take a stab. 2002 210.8(A)(6) Says GFI protection is required in

Kitchens -- where the receptacles are installed to serve the countertop surfaces.

So I think that would most likely mean no. However, I think it would be better to use a GFI if the outlet is readily accessible or the microwave is near a sink even if it is not required.

I don't think it matters if you use a single or duplex outlet in a kitchen, however the exceptions for basements and garages do make a distinction, so it would probably be better to use a single outlet.

Re: GFI Protection #7813
02/22/02 06:15 PM
02/22/02 06:15 PM
R
Redsy  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
Bucks County PA
I had this situation a few weeks ago. The oven was mounted in a cabinet and the receptacle was installed behind it, out of reach of any countertop appliance cord. The unit was within arms reach of the sink, and then I thought that if the ground was compromised and a fault occurred a serious situation could be avoided for $10.00. I installed a GFCI.

Re: GFI Protection #7814
02/22/02 06:25 PM
02/22/02 06:25 PM
E
Electricmanscott  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,457
Holden, MA USA
Frank, If the receptacle is accesible I would probably say yes. Redsy, in your case I would say no. While I admire your thoughts on safety I would question a couple of things, tripped GFI may turn into "what did that electrician do my micro doesnt work" Also what about all the other appliances. DW, Disposal, Range, Cooktop, Oven etc....

Re: GFI Protection #7815
02/22/02 07:30 PM
02/22/02 07:30 PM
F
Frank Cinker  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 311
Pennsylvania
As Electricians we all know it's better to provide GFI protection when in doubt. The tricky part is trying to determine if it is required. As Electricmanscott mentioned, and what I call "potential nuisance tripping" isn't good either.

[This message has been edited by Frank Cinker (edited 02-23-2002).]

Re: GFI Protection #7816
02/22/02 07:52 PM
02/22/02 07:52 PM
Bill Addiss  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,902
NY, USA
Frank,

I do not think a GFCI is required if the receptacle is in a cabinet (above Microwave) it cannot serve the countertop loads.

I have another question;
What about the Receptacles in an Appliance Garage? Do they technically require GFCI protection?

Bill

Re: GFI Protection #7817
02/22/02 11:49 PM
02/22/02 11:49 PM
E
Electricmanscott  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,457
Holden, MA USA
I would say yes. As they are serving countertop areas.

Re: GFI Protection #7818
02/23/02 01:22 AM
02/23/02 01:22 AM
R
resqcapt19  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
IL
Bill,
Before the 2002 code came out I would have said that the receptacles in an appliance garage had to have GFCI protection, but the new code tells us that any receptacles in appliance garages can't be counted as the required countertop receptacles. If they can't be counted as a required counter receptacle, then they must not be intended to serve the countertop, and if the don't serve the countertop, GFCI protection is not required. I would expect that this will be changed in the '05 code to require GFCI protection for the appliance garage receptacles.
Don(resqcapt19)


Don(resqcapt19)
Re: GFI Protection #7819
02/23/02 01:40 AM
02/23/02 01:40 AM
Bill Addiss  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,902
NY, USA
I would agree that they should have the protection, but if one wanted to get nit-picky, they don't seem to count as serving the countertop area. 210.8(A)(7) says that GFCI protection in Kitchens is needed "where the receptacles are installed to serve the countertop surfaces"

210.52(C)(5) says that Receptacles located in Appliance garages "shall not be considered as these required outlets"

Bill

Don,
I was composing and didn't see your comment.

[This message has been edited by Bill Addiss (edited 02-23-2002).]

Re: GFI Protection #7820
02/23/02 08:37 AM
02/23/02 08:37 AM
E
Electricmanscott  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,457
Holden, MA USA
Always looking for the loophole! I like that.

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