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30 Amps on #14 AWG !@#$% #77865
07/19/01 01:30 AM
07/19/01 01:30 AM
J
Jim W  Offline OP
Junior Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 7
Thank you this is very helpful, I was reading the code book regarding wires smaller than the ampacity rating of the breaker on table 210-4 summary of branch circuit requirements it shows # 14 taps can be used on a circuit up to 30 amps? Is this what I think it is? the little 6" pigtails of solid wire attached to your device than wire nutted to the larger wire (usually stranded) I worked with an union electrician who did that and I said you cant do that! Looks like I might have been wrong, why in the world would than allow 14 wire on a 30amp circuit? I know to fit the device, they never taught me this in two years of electric school.

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Re: 30 Amps on #14 AWG !@#$% #77866
07/19/01 04:07 AM
07/19/01 04:07 AM
S
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,360
Hi Jim.
U mean 210-24 & T210-24.

Re: 30 Amps on #14 AWG !@#$% #77867
07/19/01 07:15 AM
07/19/01 07:15 AM
R
Redsy  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
Bucks County PA
I always assumed that Table 210-24 referred to taps for fixtures whips, not wiring devices.

Re: 30 Amps on #14 AWG !@#$% #77868
07/19/01 07:38 AM
07/19/01 07:38 AM
S
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,360
me too Redsy, but there is a 99' change...anyone got a 99' handbook?

Re: 30 Amps on #14 AWG !@#$% #77869
07/19/01 11:52 AM
07/19/01 11:52 AM
R
Redsy  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
Bucks County PA
Quote
Originally posted by sparky:
me too Redsy, but there is a 99' change...anyone got a 99' handbook?


My '99 handbook doesn't offer any clarification over the 96 version.

Re: 30 Amps on #14 AWG !@#$% #77870
07/19/01 01:24 PM
07/19/01 01:24 PM
J
Jim W  Offline OP
Junior Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 7
Here a related post my new comment is at the end.

Posted by Craig (way-gate.merant.com,63.86.47.67) on July 19, 2001 at 06:37:20:

In Reply to: #14 awg on 30 amp!@#$% posted by Jim W on July 18, 2001 at 21:02:30:

I'm pretty sure what you refer to is a 30amp branch circuit supplying individual 15amp duplex receps. I think the underlying logic is that the device, in this case a 15a outlet, is only capable of drawing 15 amps in normal use. Therefore, the #14 pigtail will only be required to handle 15amps which is within it's ampacity. A direct short will cause a breaker trip before the wire heats sufficiently to cause fire, and since the pigtails are within a j-box, it's unlikely that there will be
flammable material to ignite anyway. Obviously this all goes to hell if some joker wires a 15amp plug to a 30amp device, but he gets what he deserves.
Posted by Jim W (papm3-02-207-79.dialup.dstream.net,216.73.207.79) on July 19, 2001 at 09:19:23:

In Reply to: Re: #14 awg on 30 amp!@#$% posted by Craig on July 19, 2001 at 06:37:20:

I think you have a track lets follow your line of thinking, a light will have fixed #14 wires but the load is known 100-600 watts, a outlet or device is rated at 15amps so #14 is ok, assuming you do not plug in more than 15 amps! The union electrician I was working with (a learning experience)was using #14 solid to attach outlets and switchs to a 20 amp branch circuit with #12 stranded wire in the emt and j-boxes, I said no-way, he says yes you can look how easy it is, as he bent the wire with his fingers. I agree it was much easier and faster also, when you stuff the box more room. But following this line of thinking why cant I string 6 15amp duplex recp. on a wall with #10 stranded in the emt, than just pigtail or "tap" the recp. with #14 solid. slap a 30amp breaker on it and whamo. Can I do this? It would have saved trouble on a stage I wired!

Re: 30 Amps on #14 AWG !@#$% #77871
07/19/01 02:07 PM
07/19/01 02:07 PM
R
Redsy  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
Bucks County PA
The problem I see is that a 30 amp ckt. requires 30 amp rated recptacles per table 210-24

Re: 30 Amps on #14 AWG !@#$% #77872
07/19/01 07:01 PM
07/19/01 07:01 PM
Tom  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,044
Shinnston, WV USA
I frequently put 15 amp receptacles on circuits rated 30 or 50 amps. When running Hi Bay lighting, many times the lighting is just controlled by the circuit breaker, so there is no need to run a lot of small circuits.

See 410-30(c)(2).


Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example.
Re: 30 Amps on #14 AWG !@#$% #77873
07/19/01 10:05 PM
07/19/01 10:05 PM
R
Redsy  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
Bucks County PA
Quote
Originally posted by Tom:
I frequently put 15 amp receptacles on circuits rated 30 or 50 amps. When running Hi Bay lighting, many times the lighting is just controlled by the circuit breaker, so there is no need to run a lot of small circuits.

See 410-30(c)(2).


Makes sense since the fixture load is known and constant. Not so with general purpose receptacle outlets.

Re: 30 Amps on #14 AWG !@#$% #77874
07/19/01 11:26 PM
07/19/01 11:26 PM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered

>if some joker wires a 15amp plug to a 30amp device
Or plugs two 10 amp devices into one duplex recept.

>why cant I string 6 15amp duplex recp. on a wall with #10 stranded in the emt, than just pigtail or "tap" the recp. with #14 solid. slap a 30amp breaker on it and whamo. Can I do this?
You may not go over 20 A on a general purpose circuit of that variety.

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