ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
ShoutChat
Recent Posts
Does NEC 551.71 (F) apply to dwellings?
by BigB - 01/20/23 10:46 AM
Violation?
by HotLine1 - 01/19/23 09:10 AM
Power submeter connections
by HotLine1 - 01/19/23 09:09 AM
AFDD's coming to the UK
by Texas_Ranger - 01/17/23 07:22 PM
New in the Gallery:
Burger King crown sillyness
Burger King crown sillyness
by wa2ise, December 11
240/208 to a house
240/208 to a house
by wa2ise, October 9
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 10 guests, and 19 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
#77865 07/19/01 12:30 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 7
J
Jim W Offline OP
Junior Member
Thank you this is very helpful, I was reading the code book regarding wires smaller than the ampacity rating of the breaker on table 210-4 summary of branch circuit requirements it shows # 14 taps can be used on a circuit up to 30 amps? Is this what I think it is? the little 6" pigtails of solid wire attached to your device than wire nutted to the larger wire (usually stranded) I worked with an union electrician who did that and I said you cant do that! Looks like I might have been wrong, why in the world would than allow 14 wire on a 30amp circuit? I know to fit the device, they never taught me this in two years of electric school.

Stay up to Code with the Latest NEC:


2020 NEC & Related Reference & Study Guides
2020 NEC & Related Reference & Study Guides
Pass Your Exam the FIRST TIME with these Exam Prep Combos:
 

>> Master Electrician Exam Prep     >> JourneyMan Electrician Exam Prep
 

#77866 07/19/01 03:07 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,392
S
Member
Hi Jim.
U mean 210-24 & T210-24.

#77867 07/19/01 06:15 AM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
R
Member
I always assumed that Table 210-24 referred to taps for fixtures whips, not wiring devices.

#77868 07/19/01 06:38 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,392
S
Member
me too Redsy, but there is a 99' change...anyone got a 99' handbook?

#77869 07/19/01 10:52 AM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
R
Member
Quote
Originally posted by sparky:
me too Redsy, but there is a 99' change...anyone got a 99' handbook?

My '99 handbook doesn't offer any clarification over the 96 version.

#77870 07/19/01 12:24 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 7
J
Jim W Offline OP
Junior Member
Here a related post my new comment is at the end.

Posted by Craig (way-gate.merant.com,63.86.47.67) on July 19, 2001 at 06:37:20:

In Reply to: #14 awg on 30 amp!@#$% posted by Jim W on July 18, 2001 at 21:02:30:

I'm pretty sure what you refer to is a 30amp branch circuit supplying individual 15amp duplex receps. I think the underlying logic is that the device, in this case a 15a outlet, is only capable of drawing 15 amps in normal use. Therefore, the #14 pigtail will only be required to handle 15amps which is within it's ampacity. A direct short will cause a breaker trip before the wire heats sufficiently to cause fire, and since the pigtails are within a j-box, it's unlikely that there will be
flammable material to ignite anyway. Obviously this all goes to hell if some joker wires a 15amp plug to a 30amp device, but he gets what he deserves.
Posted by Jim W (papm3-02-207-79.dialup.dstream.net,216.73.207.79) on July 19, 2001 at 09:19:23:

In Reply to: Re: #14 awg on 30 amp!@#$% posted by Craig on July 19, 2001 at 06:37:20:

I think you have a track lets follow your line of thinking, a light will have fixed #14 wires but the load is known 100-600 watts, a outlet or device is rated at 15amps so #14 is ok, assuming you do not plug in more than 15 amps! The union electrician I was working with (a learning experience)was using #14 solid to attach outlets and switchs to a 20 amp branch circuit with #12 stranded wire in the emt and j-boxes, I said no-way, he says yes you can look how easy it is, as he bent the wire with his fingers. I agree it was much easier and faster also, when you stuff the box more room. But following this line of thinking why cant I string 6 15amp duplex recp. on a wall with #10 stranded in the emt, than just pigtail or "tap" the recp. with #14 solid. slap a 30amp breaker on it and whamo. Can I do this? It would have saved trouble on a stage I wired!

#77871 07/19/01 01:07 PM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
R
Member
The problem I see is that a 30 amp ckt. requires 30 amp rated recptacles per table 210-24

#77872 07/19/01 06:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,044
Tom Offline
Member
I frequently put 15 amp receptacles on circuits rated 30 or 50 amps. When running Hi Bay lighting, many times the lighting is just controlled by the circuit breaker, so there is no need to run a lot of small circuits.

See 410-30(c)(2).


Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example.
#77873 07/19/01 09:05 PM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
R
Member
Quote
Originally posted by Tom:
I frequently put 15 amp receptacles on circuits rated 30 or 50 amps. When running Hi Bay lighting, many times the lighting is just controlled by the circuit breaker, so there is no need to run a lot of small circuits.

See 410-30(c)(2).

Makes sense since the fixture load is known and constant. Not so with general purpose receptacle outlets.

#77874 07/19/01 10:26 PM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
>if some joker wires a 15amp plug to a 30amp device
Or plugs two 10 amp devices into one duplex recept.

>why cant I string 6 15amp duplex recp. on a wall with #10 stranded in the emt, than just pigtail or "tap" the recp. with #14 solid. slap a 30amp breaker on it and whamo. Can I do this?
You may not go over 20 A on a general purpose circuit of that variety.

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Link Copied to Clipboard
Featured:

Tools for Electricians
Tools for Electricians
 

* * * * * * *
2023 National Electrical Code (NEC)
2023 NEC Now Available!
 
* * * * * * *

2020 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2020 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
timmp
timmp
Leo, IN, USA
Posts: 28
Joined: June 2004
Top Posters(30 Days)
BigB 9
triple 3
Popular Topics(Views)
302,454 Are you busy
231,776 Re: Forum
216,401 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5