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service/sub-panel upgrade #77356
05/23/01 11:08 PM
05/23/01 11:08 PM
R
rmiell  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 242
La Junta, Co. USA
Set-up: New 100amp electric service, with a new 100amp rated feeder to a sub-panel indoors. Neutral and grounds seperated in sub-panel. Wiring to range and dryer was not replaced, and both consist of copper se cable, with 2 insulated conductors, and an uninsulated conductor wrapped around the insulated two. Electrician landed these to the neutral bus in the sub-panel, but they are still bare, and can touch the enclosure.

What are my options? Tape up bare conductor, and leave on neutral bus? Leave them bare and land them on the grounding bus? Require complete replacement of cable to a 4-wire cable?

Code sections, please.

Thanks

Rick Miell

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: service/sub-panel upgrade #77357
05/23/01 11:35 PM
05/23/01 11:35 PM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered

Leaving them bare is not an option because they loosely connect neutral to ground.

Landing them on the ground is not an option because they both conduct neutral current for the 120 V portion (motor, light, and timer on the dryer; clock, light, and timer on the range).

Since they are copper, I would tape rather than replace.

Re: service/sub-panel upgrade #77358
05/24/01 06:38 AM
05/24/01 06:38 AM
S
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,371
250-140, read #3
the grounded conductor is insulated, or the grounded conductor is uninsulated and part of a Type SE service-ent cable and branch circuit originates at the service equip.

you sub is not service equip.(art 100)

[Linked Image]

[This message has been edited by sparky (edited 05-24-2001).]

Re: service/sub-panel upgrade #77359
05/24/01 07:21 AM
05/24/01 07:21 AM
R
Redsy  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
Bucks County PA
If you can't replace them, taping and leaving on neutral bus is much better of two less than ideal options. This doesn't meet current code, but is not much different than what was permitted for years until a few codes ago. I know it is not the service equipment, but as long as neutral bus is isolated from grounds, it seems to be just a junction point.

Re: service/sub-panel upgrade #77360
05/24/01 11:42 AM
05/24/01 11:42 AM
Bill Addiss  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,903
NY, USA
Rick,

I don't think there is any specific justification for this in the code. I believe that it is however a popular solution to insulate the Bare conductor and land it on the Neutral bar, making sure that some unbroken sheathing extends through the clamp/connector into the Panelboard. This way it will not raise the potential of any exposed metallic parts.

It's a good compromise in my opinion. I'd say it's much better than allowing 3 wire service to remote panelboards because they are existing. (This has been discussed before). Perhaps you can check at IAEI BB to see what other AHJs' are allowing under these circumstances.

[Linked Image]
Bill

[This message has been edited by Bill Addiss (edited 05-24-2001).]


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