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NM Cable feeding outdoor Spa Disconnect #77105
04/25/01 07:29 AM
04/25/01 07:29 AM
R
Redsy  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
Bucks County PA
680-40 regarding outdoor spas refers back to 680 Parts A & B. 680-25(d) states that panelboards and disconnects when installed (and 680-12 requires that one always be installed) must have EGC that is insulated and installed in a choice of raceways. On the interior of a building, ENT(smurf tube) is acceptable. There is no exception as in 680-25(c),Motors, that would allow NM cable,(one of the wiring methods in Chap.3)to be used inside a one-family dwelling however, I repeatedly see this installed on the inside portion of the ckt. Thoughts?

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Re: NM Cable feeding outdoor Spa Disconnect #77106
04/25/01 01:32 PM
04/25/01 01:32 PM
D
David  Offline
Junior Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 5
680-25(c)
Last Paragraph says that you can use a cable that has a ground insulated or covered by the outer sheath, I think that would include NM cable as long as it is copper and not smaller than # 12


David
Re: NM Cable feeding outdoor Spa Disconnect #77107
04/25/01 03:09 PM
04/25/01 03:09 PM
R
Redsy  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
Bucks County PA
David,
I am aware that 680-25(c) allows NM for motors. I am referring to 680-25(d)which also mentions disconnects along with panelboards. I see no reason to allow NM on the interior of a building to feed the disconnect required by 680-12.

Re: NM Cable feeding outdoor Spa Disconnect #77108
04/25/01 07:11 PM
04/25/01 07:11 PM
G
Glenn  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 75
680-25(d)(1) also notes between the service equipment and an EXISTING remote panelboard.

Does the installation meet or is required to meet that?

Glenn

Re: NM Cable feeding outdoor Spa Disconnect #77109
04/26/01 12:55 AM
04/26/01 12:55 AM
D
David  Offline
Junior Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 5
Sorry Redsy,
I should have read your post a little closer


David
Re: NM Cable feeding outdoor Spa Disconnect #77110
04/26/01 06:40 AM
04/26/01 06:40 AM
R
Redsy  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
Bucks County PA
This is no particular installation. I have seen a few like this. They are new Spas with
disconnects mounted nearby, as required. NM cable feeds the disco, then PVC conduit goes on to feed the spa. I believe that 680-25(d)requires a raceway with an insulated ground to feed and ground the disconnect, even though it is fed from the inside of residences.

Re: NM Cable feeding outdoor Spa Disconnect #77111
04/26/01 08:43 AM
04/26/01 08:43 AM
G
Glenn  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 75
Redsy, on your post of 04-25-2001 03:09PM,

- - - 680-25(c) allows NM for motors - -.

I do not read the first paragraph of 250-25(c) to allow NM to the motor.

In general, I read 680-25 to allow an EXISTING installation using from service to a sub-panel when with-in the building.

But, to the motor under ANY condition, the EGC is to be INSULATED and in ONE OF THE RACEWAYS (or type MC cable) LISTED IN 680-25(c) ist paragraph. NM is not one of that list.

Glenn

Re: NM Cable feeding outdoor Spa Disconnect #77112
04/26/01 09:57 AM
04/26/01 09:57 AM
R
Redsy  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
Bucks County PA
Quote
Originally posted by Glenn:
Redsy, on your post of 04-25-2001 03:09PM,

- - - 680-25(c) allows NM for motors - -.

I do not read the first paragraph of 250-25(c) to allow NM to the motor.

In general, I read 680-25 to allow an EXISTING installation using from service to a sub-panel when with-in the building.

But, to the motor under ANY condition, the EGC is to be INSULATED and in ONE OF THE RACEWAYS (or type MC cable) LISTED IN 680-25(c) ist paragraph. NM is not one of that list.

Glenn

Glenn,
The last paragraph of 680-25(c) allows an insulated OR covered ground, including any Chapt. 3 wiring method, for pool motors on the interior of a one-family dwelling. No such allowance exists in 680-25(d) regarding panelboards or disconnects. That was my original point. (Why do I see so many spa disconnects fed with NM cable? Seems like a violation to me.)

Re: NM Cable feeding outdoor Spa Disconnect #77113
04/26/01 09:28 PM
04/26/01 09:28 PM
Bill Addiss  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,902
NY, USA
Redsy,

If the Spa was located indoors it could be wired with NM. What does that tell us about intent?

It is difficult to understand sometimes why things are written the way they are. Have you looked in any Handbooks as to what the intent is?

Bill

Re: NM Cable feeding outdoor Spa Disconnect #77114
05/11/01 08:31 AM
05/11/01 08:31 AM
R
Redsy  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
Bucks County PA
Bill,
The handbook I own doesn't clarify.

[This message has been edited by Redsy (edited 05-11-2001).]


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