ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area LOTO and working on live equipement

Bennie
Strange that I should read your post relative to a "disconnected disconnect" today. Ran into something very similar just yesterday. An older facility with a dry sprinkler system in a sub-basement. There was an old 2 pole fused disconnect for the 115 v air compressor used to maintain system pressure. The other side of the disconnect was used to power a make shift 115v alarm system connected to the system. The installer had cleaverly disconnected the linkage between the two sets of blades so the compressor could be disconnected without disabling that alarm system. Cleaver if not Kosher.

Bill, you could make $$ writing for someone.
Scott, my brother, also a Sparky, actually had some bonehead cut a lock off a disco! I carry basic L.O.T.O. , I do believe that OSHA addresses "employees". And as no one can put up with me, I believe I am exempted.
I believe that "safe" is a relative term.

Sparky,

So you will buy my book?
(just kidding)
This is quite a problem with our trade.
We are very often expected to work live and under (much) less than perfect conditions.
And, unfortunately We cannot exclude the "Boneheads" from joining the trade.

So true Bill....ya know, i wonder how things like this would sugar off if the local AHJ had a "bonehead-of-the-month" award. I bectha they got a few contestants in mind...

[This message has been edited by sparky (edited 01-09-2001).]

Just a few months back I installed a 800 amp fused disconnect and 2 200 amp disconnects all 4 pieces were brand new also installed a 800 amp breaker panel.All of this was by the same MFG. not one of the disconnects would disengage all 3 blades the 800 amp none of the blades pulled and the 200s had 1 or 2 blades that stayed engaged the main breaker in the panel when turned off one leg stayed hot.The MFG. of the equipment sent a person out to install complete new panels and disconnects and no they were not federal brand

The AHJs could have their own version of "America's Most Wanted"

For the Tradespersons, how about posting the "Boneheads'" picture in Wholesale Houses [suppliers] all over the country, much like FBI has pictures of wanted people in the post offices..

I have seen a few clowns, but thankfully they are few and far between

Scott.

Another incident regarding properly testing after opening the breaker was; The panel was a 480 three phase supplying four welder outlets. The was one spare breaker. I shut of breaker No.#1 marked plainly to match outlet No. #1.
I tested one phase to ground, it was dead. I disassembled the front part of the arctight
receptacle and was hit by 277 volts on one phase. Checking the breakers revealed the reason. When the panel was originally connected it was one space off with all three wire terminations. The top breaker had an empty space and the last breaker had one pole connected. This had been in operation for many years.
Lesson learned, test all three phases, to ground and to each other.

Gentalman,

I would like to thank you for all of your responses. In our LOTO program, and Electircal safety Program I will be takeing several of your suggesions and making sure that my workers are taking the precautions.


I would like to pose another question for you, Would you require people to wear hard hat, face shield to work open a panel that only contains a 110V line located at the very top feeding power to 24V conections that operate selenoids for air lines?

If the air lines were close by and by turning the power off the solenoids would realease 90psi of air that could send a projectile in your face, then yes, I would recommend this PPE. If this was SOP at the facility and you signed off that you read and understood their safety policy and one of your employees got hurt you could be held liable for a willful violation.

You have to keep the higher voltage in mind when thinking about safety and precautions. Any procedures or standards that you set in your program should take existing conditions into consideration - such as Working Clearances, Proper lighting, condition of tools etc. These can greatly affect the overall level of safety in even the simplest of procedures.