ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
dsk 13
Admin 4
Recent Posts
electircal ageing test on IPC
by SIAME. 08/15/17 02:43 AM
electrical aging test on IPC
by gfretwell. 08/15/17 12:27 AM
Bathroom electrical
by gfretwell. 08/14/17 02:05 AM
"Line level" audio on Cat 5?
by gfretwell. 08/08/17 10:39 PM
Fire alarm phone lines and color coding
by gfretwell. 08/08/17 10:26 PM
New in the Gallery:
Housebilding DIY wiring
Popular Topics(Views)
239,859 Are you busy
175,419 Re: Forum
167,707 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 39 guests, and 9 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#69481 - 09/10/06 11:39 AM Exit signs  
aldav53  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 545
Chandler, AZ USA
I believe exit signs need their own separate circuit in a commercial building?
Any other conditions?


The Golden Rule - "The man with the gold makes the rule"

Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades

#69482 - 09/10/06 12:13 PM Re: Exit signs  
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
Exit signs need to be supplied by the local lighting circuit unless the area fits the exception of 700.12(E).

If you can and decide to use the exception then they must be on a dedicated circuit with breaker lock.


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

#69483 - 09/12/06 01:51 AM Re: Exit signs  
aldav53  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 545
Chandler, AZ USA
I do not see anything about having an exit sign on a separate circuit in the art 700 area in the NEC. Am I correct on this?


The Golden Rule - "The man with the gold makes the rule"

#69484 - 09/12/06 09:37 AM Re: Exit signs  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
There once was a practice that exit and emergency lighting not only had their own circuit- the circuit originated at the service entrance, before the panel. They wanted to ensure that no one ever turned it off!

That practice has gone away, mainly because of the economy of battery back-up units. You'll stikk encounter it though.


#69485 - 09/12/06 05:02 PM Re: Exit signs  
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
In this area and I imagine most Exit signs are required to be illuminated.

To that end they are either suppled from an emergency generator circuit and will likely be tied into the local emergency lighting circuit.

Or

They have battery back up either self contained or remote.

Once an exit sign is backed up with a battery it becomes "Unit Equipment" and the rules of 700.12(E) apply.

700.12(E) is long but requires unit equipment to be supplied by the local lighting circuit.

part of 700.12(E)
Quote
The branch circuit feeding the unit equipment shall be the same branch circuit as that serving the normal lighting in the area and connected ahead of any local switches.


If you read all the way to the end of 700.12(E) you will see this exception that sometimes allows a dedicated circuit to supply unit equipment.

Quote
Exception: In a separate and uninterrupted area supplied by a minimum of three normal lighting circuits, a separate branch circuit for unit equipment shall be permitted if it originates from the same panelboard as that of the normal lighting circuits and is provided with a lock-on feature.


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

#69486 - 09/12/06 07:33 PM Re: Exit signs  
resqcapt19  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
IL
Bob,
We have been down this road before and I still don't agree that the exit light has to be on the general lighting circuit. It is my opinion that the general illumination in the area of the exit light is provided by the exit light itself and can be on any unswitched circuit. I'm also not convinced that an exit light meets the definition of unit equipment at shown in 700.12(F).
Don


Don(resqcapt19)

#69487 - 09/12/06 07:38 PM Re: Exit signs  
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
Don I don't recall this coming up before.

What part of the definition do you disagree with?

The self contained Exit signs I install seem to meet the definition.

Bob


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

#69488 - 09/12/06 08:09 PM Re: Exit signs  
Ryan_J  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,374
West Jordan, Utah, USA
I also have never seen this argument, and have always viewed it the same way as Bob. Could you elaborate Don?


Ryan Jackson,
Salt Lake City

#69489 - 09/12/06 09:17 PM Re: Exit signs  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
They say "confession is good for the soul."

If I am doing a new installation, I will put the emergency lights and exit signs on a lighting circuit. It seems to make sense to have the light go "on" when power fails to the lighting circuit.
Of course, if they control the lights by flipping breakers, this idea won't work.

In that case, or in a retrofit where circuits are a mess, I tie the exit signs and bugeyes into and convenient unswitched circuit. This, at least, ensures lighting in the event of a PoCo failure.

The only joker in this deck is that we have at least one Fire Inspector who can't be bothered to use the 'test' buttons; rather, he wants to flip breakers. I mark the assorted breakers with red tape just for him!


#69490 - 09/12/06 10:21 PM Re: Exit signs  
resqcapt19  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
IL
Two things...the definition of unit equiment covers emergency lights very cleary, but doesn't really cover illuminated signs. Second there is no safety reason to have the exit lights on the area lighting circuit...it doesn't change anything...the exits lights do their job either way.


Don(resqcapt19)

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Member Spotlight
Vlado
Vlado
Croatia
Posts: 28
Joined: February 2011
Show All Member Profiles 
Featured:

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.015s Queries: 15 (0.003s) Memory: 0.8183 MB (Peak: 0.9934 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-08-16 23:47:38 UTC