ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area California's Certification Nightmare

Scott I would not be surprised that sometime down the road it becomes the same for all trades. Require WC ins. for everyone, even people who might be able to see or hear a job site from a one mile radius will be an eventualality in the deep future.

I think to a degree that Electure summed this thread up with one small sentence:
There was a system here a few years back to catch out un-licenced Electricians here, where they would be called to a certain house and asked to show thier Practising Licence card before entering.
Anyone that never had one was fined $500 on the spot and was investigated by the Electrical Workers Registration Board here.
They weeded out a lot of un-registered sparkies in this way.
A lot of Handymen are being investigated.

Trumpy, they do that here too, take a look at the 2 1/2 pages before the Certification article in that newsletter, chock full of people getting busted for violations on thier "Contractors License", which is handled by the CSLB. Sting operations is something they brag about, and again in that same newsletter, are actively requesting homes and buisinesses to lure in the unsuspecting hack. I actualy know a guy who showed up at one of thier stings.

They should be in charge of this law IMO, but are not.

The "Certification" law is from a completely different agency better known for more talk, less action and sittng on thier hands with extended thumbs. DAS My opinion is that they don't think that they can really enforce it yet - it might mean they have to work.... Really they STILL dont have the numbers of people certified to enforce it yet, but never will unless they do. IMO

And technicaly it is not really a law to ensure that you are "Certified", as much as it is a law re-directing entry to the trade into Apprenticeship Programs. They may even care less about enforcement. Getting certified at this point is just a way to justify the current work-force that they don't yet have under thier greasy thumb. Now its the law that every new entry to the trade gets thier thumb-print on thier maluable little foreheads. They might just be happily over-whelmed with that alone. Really is kind of a misnomer to call it a "Certification" law, as it really an "Apprenticship" law. Making sure they have control over who gets into the trade. The continuing edU is just a method from letting the thumb-print fade......

With jokers like this in charge of what kind of labor the electrical industry gets for the foreseeable future, I get worried. What if they can't produce.... Things may be getting much worse....

The state may not be enforcing the law on certified electricians, but these guys are. www.nceci.info They stopped by a fire station that we are working on and wanted to see everyone's cards. I realize they don't have any official capacity to enforce the law but they sure can cause a lot of grief. I don't mean to turn this into a union/non-union debate but these guys make it very clear on what their intent is. I just wanted to bring up the fact that there are alternative ways to enforce the law even if the state can't/won't do it.

scameron81

"The state may not be enforcing the law on certified electricians, but these guys are. www.nceci.info They stopped by a fire station that we are working on and wanted to see everyone's cards. I realize they don't have any official capacity to enforce the law but they sure can cause a lot of grief. I don't mean to turn this into a union/non-union debate but these guys make it very clear on what their intent is. I just wanted to bring up the fact that there are alternative ways to enforce the law even if the state can't/won't do it."

These guys can come by all they want, but they should be told to take a hike! They are not authorized to enforce anything...period. That they come to a work sight and demand to see anything is pure BS. They are not a government agency and are not part of enforcement. If these "gentlemen" (keeping it nice) were to come to any worksight I have been on, they would be told to get lost and we would in fact call local law authority to remove them from the work sight. As for causing trouble, yes the union has deep pockets, but never underestimate the work of a few good pro bono lawyers can do to keep them spending your dues to defend themselves in court. Especially if they even in the least little way "insinuated" that they were somehow the "law".

Texas went through a semilar licensing program. However, there was also a grandfather clause that allowed a JE or ME electrician to become licensed without taking a test as long as he/she had proof of working under a licensed master electrician for xx amount of man hours. These master electricians were usually licensed through a city that had a licensing and testing program. My question is did CA. have a grandfather clause. Texas also has a continued education requirement that includes training and testing yearly to maintain any license.

scameron81, I too second the opinion of skingusmc. I have sent you an e-mail.....

Richard, Welcome!

No grandfathering at all here in CA.
Even a licensed (class C-10) electrical contractor is required to take and pass the Electrician Certification Exam if he/she is going to be working with tools for any C-10 contractor besides him/her self. A C-10 needn't also be certified to work on their own jobs.

Received from Richard Wehrmeister via e-mail:

I agree the whole country should have a national standard and that is why the IBEW guys were not grandfathered... I'm treading in merky water here, but here goes...

The original law signed by our former Gov. Davis (AB 931) had simular provisions for acceptance of training, however we are not all in the Brotherhood, and the IBEW only represent a percentage of the states workers. (Many people including myself were very angered about possibly lossing our careers due to that.) Also, from what I understand, if your state recieves Federal funding, you have to follow thier rules on "Non-discrimination by Association", meaning you have to be inclusive to UNION, or NON-UNION. Upon realizing this, they needed to re-write the law as it would've caused them to loose federal funding of ALL programs. Something they could not afford to do. So a new law was written. (AB 1087) Which corrected that, kinda... Somehow all the merit shop programs lost "Approval" from the state DAS right after that, and several law suits happened to keep them. This took a few years... Then they realized you had to give the testing in major non-english languages, handicap access etc... New law +/or ammendments, more delays...

So bottom line, EVERYONE needs to get tested! You still had to prove that you had experiance under penalty of perjury, and they can check, and ask for affidavids from employers. But now that the deadline passed for Commercial/Industrial, out of state workers have to prove equivilent licenseing in thier State, and still have to take the test, just like everyone else....

Likewise, if you want a C-10, you have to take the test, even if you have one in another state, even if your "Grandfather" had one.

[This message has been edited by e57 (edited 07-27-2006).]