ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Shout Box
Recent Posts
Motion detectors and dimmers
by gfretwell. 09/20/18 04:02 PM
Extension cords
by annemarie1. 09/20/18 08:54 AM
Inspection camera help
by Bill Addiss. 09/19/18 10:50 PM
220/230/240V 60Hz Systems
by gfretwell. 09/16/18 12:37 PM
Acronis Backup 2017
by gfretwell. 09/16/18 12:46 AM
New in the Gallery:
Plug terminals
Housebilding DIY wiring
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 39 guests, and 24 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Whole-house GFI #6758
01/11/02 06:59 PM
01/11/02 06:59 PM
P
pauluk  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
Norfolk, England
Just finishing off my last couple of jobs before disappearing and thought I'd relate today's experience of one reason why I'd urge you not to go down the "whole-house" GFCI approach.

This was a big house converted from old barns -- Bathroom the size of my living room and a living room the size of my whole house; the guy paid £300,000 cash for it (about $450,000). Waaaaay out of my league! But that's irrelevant....

O.K., I was working in the yet-to-be-finished barn/garage area, having gotten several flood lights fitted high up in the 1830s beams. It was dark by the time I got to the recepts. so I turned the floods on to continue working, and shut off the 32A C/B for the recept. ring.

No problem you might think. Well, guess what happens when you take a pair of cutters to a cable and they momentarily bridge neutral and ground. Yep, <click>....<darkness>. I was expecting that.

Having descended the ladder in gloom to reset the breaker, I went back up to strip the cable ends and accidentally brushed the stripped neutral onto the grounded fixture box. D***! Back down
to the panel again. I managed to short N-to-G once more in installing that fixture. (At least the RCD/GFI is working!)

See why I don't like this arrangement?

Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
Re: Whole-house GFI #6759
01/11/02 07:34 PM
01/11/02 07:34 PM
B
BuggabooBren  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 328
NM
Hey, on the positive side (no pun intended but I'll take it as a freebie anyway), you'll be svelte and fit for your adventure to find a new home after going up and down the ladder so many times!

Re: Whole-house GFI #6760
01/11/02 08:23 PM
01/11/02 08:23 PM
electure  Offline

Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,274
Fullerton, CA USA
We're required by Code to have Ground Fault Protection on any service over 1000A at 277/480!
Tripping can sometimes be achieved by almost any direct phase-to-ground fault. Even a pinched hot #18 wire to a ballast can bring down a big building.
Cool, huh?
Please write, OK?

Re: Whole-house GFI #6761
01/12/02 12:48 PM
01/12/02 12:48 PM
P
pauluk  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
Norfolk, England
Yep, I certainly got plenty of exercise yesterday. I could've opened the main panel again and lifted the neutrals for the ring, but I had only one outlet to move on that circuit & it was getting near quitting time -- You know how it is!

Scott,
I guess you know the problem only too well then!

Any particular reason why a 277/480 main GFI is required only above 1000 amps?

Does it have to be a single GFI or can you split to two or more panels each with its own sub-main GFI? That would at least minimize the disruption a little.

Re: Whole-house GFI #6762
01/17/02 07:05 PM
01/17/02 07:05 PM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered

What is the typical range for the potential between a neutral and a ground? Will it always trip a GFI?

Re: Whole-house GFI #6763
01/17/02 11:38 PM
01/17/02 11:38 PM
N
NoShorts4Me  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 36
southern california
electure: We're required by Code to have Ground Fault Protection on any service over 1000A at 277/480!
Tripping can sometimes be achieved by almost any direct phase-to-ground fault. Even a pinched hot #18 wire to a ballast can bring down a big building.
Cool, huh?

And the really lousy part of it is, alot of those services are oversized by 75% by the engineers, pushing them into the 1000amp threshhold, most of the time for NO apparent reason.Engineers covering there..behinds, as usual.
By the way, whats the name of that company locally that sets the gfi's to spec's? Their name escapes me.
NS4M


Featured:

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
SafetyWired
SafetyWired
Pa, USA
Posts: 44
Joined: July 2013
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
Admin 13
Trumpy 11
Popular Topics(Views)
249,370 Are you busy
187,298 Re: Forum
176,643 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1
(Release build 20180101)
Page Time: 0.021s Queries: 14 (0.006s) Memory: 0.9749 MB (Peak: 1.1192 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2018-09-22 09:13:22 UTC