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Re: Splicing a new light fixture while circuit is energized #6527 01/27/07 06:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,429
L
LK Offline
Member
"The problems in this trade are not simply a complacency about safe work practices, in a lot of cases, it's an aggressive stance against safety because people think that taking un-necessary risk makes them macho."

Yes, men are by nature agressive, but learning how to control it, can be a lifetime job for some, the just do it type, may never learn, a loss of control for them is usually a panic situation, so it becomes much easer to just push on, usually they can avoid problems by just taking a moment to think things out.

Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
Re: Splicing a new light fixture while circuit is energized #6528 01/27/07 07:02 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 625
S
SolarPowered Offline
Member
This reminds me of an old saying among pilots: "There are old pilots, and there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold pilots."

Re: Splicing a new light fixture while circuit is energized #6529 01/27/07 08:34 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 74
C
CRM Offline
Member
The new adition of the Canadian Electrical Code, has a solution to changing ballasts hot. Rule 30-308.... All 347 volt (Actually its over 150 volts to ground) fluorescent lighting balasts need a disconnect IN them now. It must be integral to the fixture and clearly marked. It's my understanding that all new light fixtures will be manufactured with this switch included.

Re: Splicing a new light fixture while circuit is energized #6530 01/27/07 10:42 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,408
G
gfretwell Offline
Member
I think we should never underestimate the value of a long extension cord and a drop light. Go down the hall until you can find a hot circuit, with the one you are working on LOTO'ed
When that original light was put in, I bet there was temporary lighting in there.


Greg Fretwell
Re: Splicing a new light fixture while circuit is energized #6531 01/28/07 08:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1
R
Rattus Maximus Offline
Junior Member
I mostly work alone (w/o another electrician) and frequently do "hot" work because it is often very difficult to find the breaker/fuse that supplies the circuit. If I can't find the switch/breaker/fuse I ALWAYS wear rubber meterman's gloves and safety glasses. Fellow electricians where I work frequently work live without any protection up to and including 480v. The company bought them rubber gloves and glove bags. One said that it was nice they got the bags, since they were never going to wear the gloves and it gave them a place to keep them.

A part of the problem is that they were issued lineman's gloves rather than meterman's gloves. With the meterman's gloves and leather protectors I can change #18 wire and use orange wirenuts with little difficulty.


R. Maximus
Re: Splicing a new light fixture while circuit is energized #6532 01/28/07 09:16 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,281
electure Offline
Member
Quoting myself from Jan 2002
"The company I work for had an electrician that against orders was working a hot 277 light circuit. His autopsy said it was the shock, and not the 25 foot fall to the concrete that killed him. If we can't shut it off, then it doesn't get connected. Workmen's Comp Insurance doubled. Working hot circs is grounds for immediate termination."

An update...
Not only did this guy leave a wife with no husband and 2 kids with no dad, the company went out of business less than a year after I posted that. 20 employees had to hit the streets.
If you think that someone will be symapthetic if you get hurt or killed, think again.
The consensus was that the guy was an idiot who made them lose their business and jobs.

Re: Splicing a new light fixture while circuit is energized #6533 01/29/07 02:04 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 288
Y
yaktx Offline
Member
I heard someplace that more people get killed by 120V than any other voltage. Why?

A. It's the most common voltage.
B. Lack of respect.

I think I remember a safety video that said the average age of an electrician killed on the job was something like 49. Familiarity (with hazard) breeds contempt.

Do I work stuff hot? Certainly. Do I do it unnecessarily? Usually not. If I'm changing a service, I will usually do it hot, but consider that I am on a stepladder isolated a few feet from the structure, I'm wearing 1kV gloves (I've seen linemen work 120V with only common leather gloves), and I drop a 15kV blanket over the ACSR neutral if I think there's any chance of contact. Just the other day I called the POCO for a disconnect because the service was on the pole, my ladder wasn't tall enough, and there was a primary up there.

When I was an apprentice, my journeyman made me go up an extension ladder onto a pole to connect a drop to a temp service. The ladder wasn't tall enough, so he backed the truck up to the pole and put the ladder on the bumper. It still wasn't tall enough. He cut 6' of 12/2, tossed it up to me and said, "Tie yourself off." I looked up at the transformer. The cutout was closed. I knew that the primary had been installed within the last day or two, and there were no other loads on the line, so maybe the primary wasn't connected at the other end of the street. I suggested we drive out to the end of the line to check the cutout there. He said no, just connect the **** thing. I had to hold my hands above my head to strip the wires, knowing there was no way I could be certain not to ground myself.

Yes, the transformer was dead. Yes, I took the risk, afraid of losing my job. Yes, it was stupid. This company also made apprentices ride in the backs of vans with unsecured tools and materials.

I take risks now, but I understand the risks, and nobody makes me take them.

Re: Splicing a new light fixture while circuit is energized #6534 01/29/07 05:47 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 272
L
Luketrician Offline
Member
Quote

who cares if it is 5Ma or 10Ma that can kill ya, point is it is very low...so what will 8...10...15amps do...doh!!!



WhiteRook, I was also thinking of it that way. [Linked Image]


Luke Clarke
Electrical Planner for TVA.

Re: Splicing a new light fixture while circuit is energized #6535 01/29/07 08:35 AM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
R
resqcapt19 Offline
Member
whiterock,
Quote
Do any of you ever make connections in a TAP CAN hooking up your service??? I don't think they will shut the transformer down so you can hook up a service to a new store in a strip mall, at least during normal working hours. That is when you use Personal Protection Equipment, i.e. gloves or safety mats.

While that is a common practice, it is not permitted by the OSHA rules. The fact that you have suitable PPE does not change the rule that says "tho shalt not work hot".
Don
Don


Don(resqcapt19)
Re: Splicing a new light fixture while circuit is energized #6536 01/29/07 10:50 AM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 265
S
Sixer Offline
Member
Quote
I heard someplace that more people get killed by 120V than any other voltage. Why?
A. It's the most common voltage.
B. Lack of respect.


And how many times have you heard "It's only 120 volts"?


Sixer

"Will it be cheaper if I drill the holes for you?"
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