ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area Splicing a new light fixture while circuit is energized

Do any of you ever make connections in a TAP CAN hooking up your service??? I don't think they will shut the transformer down so you can hook up a service to a new store in a strip mall, at least during normal working hours. That is when you use Personal Protection Equipment, i.e. gloves or safety mats.

When I was first starting out in the trade, we were changing lamps and ballasts at Wal-Mart and we routinely changed out bad ballasts (277v) while hot. One guy less experienced than me got bit with 277 when he cut the neutral with the load on it. It almost knocked him off the ladder. He had no idea what had happened so we explained it to him and he climbed right back up and did it again. Ignorance can be cured stupidity cannot.
If you absolutely have to work a circuit hot, get the safety gloves eye/face protection or whatever else is necessary.

Reminds me of when I was a kid and the furnace guy came out to check for a leak in the gas line with a match!!! Stupid is as stupid does!

Just some quick thoughts...oh yes, one last thing, who cares if it is 5Ma or 10Ma that can kill ya, point is it is very low...so what will 8...10...15amps do...doh!!!

"we were changing lamps and ballasts at Wal-Mart and we routinely changed out bad ballasts (277v) while hot."

We had 4 electricians in my area killed working on store lighting, and all but one had more then 20 years in the trade.

IMO there is no reason to work on any lighting circuit hot, other then trouble shooting, for the ones that want to showboat, be my guest, it's your life.

But you can bridge your fingers across the terminals of a car battery and you won't even feel a tingle. The reason is that there isn't enough voltage present to force sufficient current through your body. To feel a shock from a car battery, you would need to do something ridiculous like making the connections to 2 needles stuck into your skin, or touching the terminals with your tongue.

So while it is the current that determines the lethality of a shock, a lethal current can only be delivered if there is enough voltage to overcome the skin resistance, or if the resistance is somehow lowered.

When I did my first overhead service upgrade I called the utility to disconnect power so I could connect the new service. They refused and told me it was my job to make the temporary connection live.

In the case of a commercial job as originally posted, I'd come in after hours rather than work on it live. As for working in the dark, I have three large flashlights that brighten up the room.

Dave

COMPLACENCY !
hope i spelled it right.

For the sake of turning off the power for a couple of minutes, to replace a ballast, lamp or add an extra fixture it is worth doing so for the sake of safe working practises.
It's your life on the line, don't forget.

As electure sais a Flashlight is ideal during the dark period.
I use a simple 3 LED headlamp and it does the job perfectly for me.

renosteinke, I just noticed I did dig up an old thread...I only saw Month/Day last time...didn't see it was from 2002...but I like the discussion it brought back

RODALCO...I'm right there with you, I bought a coleman 5 LED/1 Incandescent head unit a few years ago (originally to go caving) and it has proven invaluable to working in the dark.

WhiteRook...in another post (I forget the topic...something about MWBCs) I talked about how when I disrupted a neutral in use and saw sparks (luckily I didn't get bit by it)...that was when I learned the importance of a good neutral and ground.

Rodalco, you are right compacency gets people hurt. I am afraid of getting zapped and possibly killed, so I respect electricity. I think once you loose that respect and become complacent, that is when you will get hurt or killed. I remember some old timers from when I first started that said that had gotten used to getting bit by 120v and now it was no big deal. That is when they become dangerous to themselves as well as anyone working with them.
If a GC/store manager or whoever doesn't want to let you shut down the hot circuit just ask them how much they have in liability insurance...if they still refuse tell 'em to do it themselves and walk away!

Colorado Sparky, I have been hit by the neutral of 277v and don't want that to happen again.

LK, I personally do not think the risk of being "harmed" by working on 277v lighting is worth it, whatever I am getting paid and neither does my family, they would rather keep me around for a while longer...LOL

Remember to "WORK SMART" then you can work again tomorrow.

Often times I want to de-energize the circuit but I don't want to have to go through every circuit in the house to shut down the one I need to shutdown. I saw one of these "circuit breaker finder" tools at the Home Depot but it looks like a piece of crap. Could someone suggest a good named brand tool that does this?

LOL,
Classic, Bill!,

I'm absent minded and don't enjoy doing hot work because I know I'm prone than a lot of people to forget myself and make a mistake. I've gotten more than my share of BS about being a "crybaby" for refusing to work energized 277. And this is from experienced mechanics who should darn sure know better.

The problems in this trade are not simply a complacency about safe work practices, in a lot of cases, it's an aggressive stance against safety because people think that taking un-necessary risk makes them macho.

-John