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Switch in tub area #62182
02/10/06 09:00 PM
02/10/06 09:00 PM
G
GTE  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 48
Bridgehampton, N.Y. USA
Can a switch be installed within the tub area? This is a free standing tub with no shower.

Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
Re: Switch in tub area #62183
02/10/06 09:21 PM
02/10/06 09:21 PM
E
e57  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,876
S.F.,CA USA
No, bad idea anyway. see 404.4


Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason
Re: Switch in tub area #62184
02/10/06 10:53 PM
02/10/06 10:53 PM
G
GTE  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 48
Bridgehampton, N.Y. USA
A wall sconce can be installed, but not a switch? Is the space above a tub a wet or damp area? If there is no shower I think it is a damp area.

Re: Switch in tub area #62185
02/10/06 11:47 PM
02/10/06 11:47 PM
B
bot540  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 174
Vernon Hills, IL
no, a wall sconce can't be installed. The 3" x 8" rule applies for certain fixtures. Read 410.4.(of the top of my head, maybe not right section but it should be close to that)


Jesus may have been a capenter,but God was an electrician.Genesis1:3
Re: Switch in tub area #62186
02/11/06 02:16 AM
02/11/06 02:16 AM
mxslick  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 803
Atomic City, ID USA
Quote
The 3" x 8" rule


I think he means 3' x 8' rule.

Are you working on a McMansion? Sounds like the crazy stuff they try to pull with electrical goods in the tub area....


Stupid should be painful.
Re: Switch in tub area #62187
02/11/06 07:00 AM
02/11/06 07:00 AM
T
Texas_Ranger  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,426
Vienna, Austria
Maybe you could put a pull-chain switch in the ceiling, with a non-conductive pull-string... that's the way it was done before switches inside bathrooms were allowed at all in some European countries.

Re: Switch in tub area #62188
02/11/06 07:04 AM
02/11/06 07:04 AM
I
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
Quote
no, a wall sconce can't be installed. The 3" x 8" rule applies for certain fixtures. Read 410.4.(of the top of my head, maybe not right section but it should be close to that)


Wall sconces are not prohibited from 'the area'

Quote
410.4(D) Bathtub and Shower Areas. No parts of cord-connected luminaires (fixtures), hanging luminaires (fixtures), lighting track, pendants, or ceiling-suspended (paddle) fans shall be located within a zone measured 900 mm (3 ft) horizontally and 2.5 m (8 ft) vertically from the top of the bathtub rim or shower stall threshold. This zone is all encompassing and includes the zone directly over the tub or shower stall.


Bob


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
Re: Switch in tub area #62189
02/11/06 12:22 PM
02/11/06 12:22 PM
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
The code cannot, ever, be expected to specifically address every possible contingency. So, we have to look at the context of the code, as well as similar applications, and make our interpretations from there.

Secondly, this is a far from perfect world, and sometimes we just have to make do with something less than ideal. Again, only with the proper education, training, and experience can we attempt to "compensate."

First of all, the location: Let's see, just how "damp" is your hand likely to be, or your feet (while standing in the tub) when the switch is operated? Heck, if I could, I'd want such a switch to be not just 'damp' or 'wet' rated, but submersible!

Looking at a similar application -the part of the code that deals with pools and spas- we see that the code wants the lights themselves to be totally enclosed (weatherproof), as well as on a GFI. Not a bad idea here, either.

And not just a "GFI switch" either...I'd want the circuit feeding the switch GFI protected, with the GFI in another room, well out of reach.

Even if you could somehow guarantee that there would never, ever be a wet hand touching that switch, condensation will be drawn into that switch as a fly to a cowpie....best to have that switch totally sealed and gasketed as well. One of those outdoor covers with the lever comes to mind, or an industrial selector switch.
(FWIW, the latest such covers are raised about 1/4", and will accept a normal switch).

My preferred choice, though would be to MOVE THE SWITCH.

Re: Switch in tub area #62190
02/11/06 03:16 PM
02/11/06 03:16 PM
A
Alan Nadon  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 399
Elkhart, IN. USA
The Code restricts the location of fixtures not the switches.
Wall switches may be located within the three foot radius of the tub.
EXCEPT in manufactured housing (HUD) which has a regulation prohibiting it.
It is a design consideration.
Damp or wet location restrictions may apply to the switch construction & location.
Alan--
Bathroom GFI receptacles are frequently installed within three feet of the tub

[This message has been edited by Alan Nadon (edited 02-11-2006).]


Alan--
If it was easy, anyone could do it.
Re: Switch in tub area #62191
02/13/06 06:29 PM
02/13/06 06:29 PM
T
TNSunny  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 44
Tennessee
My home, which was was built in the early '60's, has the light switch for the main bathroom located directly above the rim of the tub. I've wanted to move it, but there is no other place to put it unless you want to walk halfway through a dark bathroom to get to the switch. So I guess I'll leave it where it is for now.

I would say that the intention of the code is to keep ALL electrical devices - except those specifically rated and permitted - out of "the zone." Granted, that many bathroom designs pretty much require that the receptacle or switch end up inside the zone, in which case, I guess we just have to deal with it.

Kevin


Kevin
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