ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Shout Box
Recent Posts
MRI LED lights dimmer control replacement - wow!
by Potseal. 01/19/18 08:52 PM
VDE 0100 to introduce AFCIs
by sparky. 01/19/18 08:03 PM
Video: Inventor of the GFCI self-testing shocks
by Bill Addiss. 01/17/18 11:11 PM
FPE in Germany
by HotLine1. 01/17/18 07:07 PM
Fujifilm Recalls Power Adapter Wall Plugs
by Admin. 01/16/18 07:04 PM
New in the Gallery:
Housebilding DIY wiring
SE cable question
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 12 guests, and 14 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
More Unqualified Advice #59385
12/03/05 01:31 PM
12/03/05 01:31 PM
B
BigJohn  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 391
Boston, MA
So I had to sacrifice a good chunk of my Saturday for work. Not that I usually mind, but this time we had to drive an hour and a half--to a house that'd already pass rough inspection and been sheetrocked-- because the H/O discovered we'd run aluminum SEU to a furnace. Our job? Rip out the aluminum and install copper.

If someone wants copper just to be eccentric, fine, it's their dollar. But come to find out the HVAC guys had been telling them that the aluminum SEU we installed would burn down their house. They HVAC guys had it happen a number of times in the past where they had terminated the cable and it eventually caused fires.

No amount of logic (including telling them the service wires were aluminum) would convince the H/O otherwise. And when the HVAC installer actually showed up, his "proof" to me was a sticker inside a condenser unit saying AL shouldn't be terminated on the lugs. Makes sense, because those lugs were only rated for copper! (Which we used.)

Basically, it came down to a whole bunch of wasted time and the H/O's wasted money, because the HVAC guys didn't know the first thing about dual-rated lugs. But that didn't stop them from freely doing, and dispensing advice about, electrical work.

[Linked Image] [Linked Image] [Linked Image]

-John

[This message has been edited by BigJohn (edited 12-03-2005).]

Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
Re: More Unqualified Advice #59386
12/03/05 01:52 PM
12/03/05 01:52 PM
H
hbiss  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 886
Hawthorne, NY USA
Our job? Rip it out the aluminum and install copper... If someone wants copper just to be eccentric, fine, it's their dollar... sticker inside a condenser unit saying AL shouldn't be terminated on the lugs... because those lugs were only rated for copper! (Which we used.)... the HVAC guys didn't know the first thing about dual-rated lugs.

Am I missing something here? Did you originally run AL and change the lugs or what??

-Hal


[This message has been edited by hbiss (edited 12-03-2005).]

Re: More Unqualified Advice #59387
12/03/05 03:04 PM
12/03/05 03:04 PM
B
BigJohn  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 391
Boston, MA
We ran #6 aluminum to the furnace, which had lugs rated for aluminum.

We ran #10 copper to the condenser, which had lugs rater for copper.

The change was for the furnace, because the H/O had been convinced that all aluminum was inherently dangerous.

-John

Re: More Unqualified Advice #59388
12/03/05 10:57 PM
12/03/05 10:57 PM
B
Branch  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 13
West Alexandria, Ohio, Preble
I think you might want to look at 338.10(B)(2) under uses permitted. Seu for branch circuits.

Re: More Unqualified Advice #59389
12/04/05 05:17 PM
12/04/05 05:17 PM
J
jwhite  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 64
Trenton, NC, USA
i think so too... se/seu is not permitted for a hvac.

Re: More Unqualified Advice #59390
12/04/05 05:25 PM
12/04/05 05:25 PM
L
LK  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,429
New Jersey
He said he passed inspection, could he have run it with insulated conductors ?, and used the bare for ground.

[This message has been edited by LK (edited 12-04-2005).]

Re: More Unqualified Advice #59391
12/04/05 07:03 PM
12/04/05 07:03 PM
B
BigJohn  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 391
Boston, MA
Don't have a code book handy at the moment, but I'll check that out. Yes, we did pass rough, but the inspectors in that county are combination and electrical work does not seem to be their strong point.

Based on LKs post, I'm guessing the issue in question is an uninsulated neutral...? The furnace we ran it to did not require a neutral. Straight 240V. Or is there another issue?

-John

Re: More Unqualified Advice #59392
12/04/05 11:38 PM
12/04/05 11:38 PM
L
LK  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,429
New Jersey
That should have been ok

Re: More Unqualified Advice #59393
12/05/05 01:26 AM
12/05/05 01:26 AM
L
Larry Fine  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 693
Richmond, VA
In this instance, I would replace the cable only at the customer's expense for both material and labor.

I have use aluminum in the past, and spliced in a foot of copper conductors for lugs rated for only copper.


Larry Fine
Fine Electric Co.
fineelectricco.com
Re: More Unqualified Advice #59394
12/05/05 07:42 AM
12/05/05 07:42 AM
J
jbfan  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 69
Newnan, GA
I had one where the hvac contractor told the HO not to run AL. Said it would void the warrenty. After checking the paperwork with the unit, it did indeed say not to use AL. Had to run conduit to unit and pull copper.


"Yes I am a Pirate, 200 years to late" Jimmy Buffett

Featured:

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
Bill Addiss
Bill Addiss
NY, USA
Posts: 3,890
Joined: October 2000
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
Admin 20
Potseal 15
sparky 15
Popular Topics(Views)
243,565 Are you busy
180,366 Re: Forum
170,843 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1
(Release build 20180101)
Page Time: 0.027s Queries: 14 (0.004s) Memory: 1.0096 MB (Peak: 1.1836 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2018-01-20 16:56:49 UTC