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Outlets in counter top. #56873
10/01/05 11:12 PM
10/01/05 11:12 PM
D
dmattox  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 265
Anaheim, CA
The project I'm working on the owner really wants some outlets face up on counter tops on cabinets in his conference room. I intially steared him away from it.

Is there actually a code issue installing outlets face up? How about installing a box used for floor boxes w/ the covers that seal the devices?

Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
Re: Outlets in counter top. #56874
10/01/05 11:33 PM
10/01/05 11:33 PM
togol  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 421
NW In. USA
406.4(E) receptacles Shall not be installed in a face-up position...


the little I know about flanged outlets, ....the back-box is pretty deep , I don't think they are suitable for cabinets, unless you have the space below the cabinet top to accomodate the box and any flex you will use.

Also, you will need a trim carp. to set the back box below the finished top as the flanges are designed for use on carpet, and will not sit flush .


[This message has been edited by togol (edited 10-01-2005).]


Tom
Re: Outlets in counter top. #56875
10/02/05 06:57 AM
10/02/05 06:57 AM
D
dmattox  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 265
Anaheim, CA
Thanks for the reply togol, 406.4(E) is for dwelling units, this is a commercial building, is there anything that prohibits this for a commercial building?

I like to use those two gang walker duct boxes, which are adjustable from 0 to 1/2" or so so that shouldnt be a problem.

Re: Outlets in counter top. #56876
10/02/05 08:58 AM
10/02/05 08:58 AM
togol  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 421
NW In. USA
ooops, I missed that .
The Walker boxes that you will use, have some rather misleading info in their catalog, I am guessing you have picked out the one that states it is for wood floors........, I made the same mistake in a church with those same boxes,.
They are indeed for wood floors , just not wood FINISHED floors, you cannot adjust the "carpet ' flange snug against the wood without recessing the box into your table ....of in my case the...I cannot recall the correct name of the part of the church where the altar rest ... steps .. I had 56 boxes to install .
We decided to mount the boxes onto the subfloor, and ordered longer adjusting screws from Walker ( at a $1 a piece)to allow the brass flange to rest on the 3/4' finished floor....it was a real PITA


Tom
Re: Outlets in counter top. #56877
10/02/05 09:15 AM
10/02/05 09:15 AM
D
dmattox  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 265
Anaheim, CA
We use something similar to these togol:
[Linked Image]

The ones we get are rated for concrete and they are often installed too low when the owner changes their mind about the flooring. When that happens I dont use their adjusting screws and just drill through the metal bases and use nuts and bolts. Works great.

I'm sure I can get the install to look nice. I'm just worried about any code issues. But since its a "dry" counter top, I can't see any. And it for sure will get less moisture than the floor boxes that get the mop going over it once a week.

Re: Outlets in counter top. #56878
10/02/05 09:17 AM
10/02/05 09:17 AM
I
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
You can put the outlets in face up if they insist.

How fancy of a room is this, do they also need DATA connections?

[Linked Image]

This is just on example of whats available if your customer wants to spend some money.

Check out this web site.
http://cableorganizer.com/pop-n-plug/

We have some customers that are willing to pay for these pop up connections.

Bob


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
Re: Outlets in counter top. #56879
10/02/05 09:25 AM
10/02/05 09:25 AM
D
dmattox  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 265
Anaheim, CA
Those looked cool iwire, until I saw the price!

Ouch, hehe.

I'll present him with the options and let him decide. Thanks guys.

Re: Outlets in counter top. #56880
10/02/05 09:35 AM
10/02/05 09:35 AM
I
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
Yeah, I think you could get them for less (or ones like them) through a supply house but no, they are not cheap by any means.

Most customers do not want to spend that much.

Bob


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
Re: Outlets in counter top. #56881
10/02/05 11:01 AM
10/02/05 11:01 AM
togol  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 421
NW In. USA
dmattox, yep thems the ones, the church folks made a last minute change , originally the outlets were placed in the risers of the steps ,but "people would see them" so into the floor they went .
we wanted to tap the boxes and use longer bolts but the FM and the AHJ were having kittens about the floor construction and absolutely dis-allowed any mods to everything in the floor, including these damn boxes.

those units that iwire has are pretty cool though


Tom
Re: Outlets in counter top. #56882
10/02/05 06:20 PM
10/02/05 06:20 PM
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
That 406.4E cite was misleading....the "countertops" referred to are kitchen countertops, and other places likely to get wet. Not usually the case with a desk top!

A similar prohibition would apply to lab benches, etc.

That said, I see several attractive alternatives already posted here! :-)


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