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Short blackout - So. California #55347
08/27/05 08:30 AM
08/27/05 08:30 AM
pauluk  Offline OP
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
Norfolk, England

Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
Re: Short blackout - So. California #55348
08/27/05 09:15 AM
08/27/05 09:15 AM
Trumpy  Offline

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,260
SI,New Zealand
Interesting that a guy from the UK should post this. [Linked Image]
Seriously though, you have to say that having temperatures like that, affects the oil in the transformers as it does the lines that convey the energy, less dissipation= quicker shutdown.
But one thing that a lot of people don't realise is the fact that you have to sectionalise the loads as you bring them back on-line, bringing all that back on at once would cause an ever bigger crash than what caused the original fault.

Re: Short blackout - So. California #55349
08/27/05 12:23 PM
08/27/05 12:23 PM
sierra electrician  Offline
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 219
North Fork, CA USA
SCE actually shut down three cities in the So. San Jauquin Valley to help unload the system for LA.

Spokesman for SCE said he got a call to shut them down and had no idea why his Company woud do that. A very well informed individual.


Re: Short blackout - So. California #55350
08/27/05 02:13 PM
08/27/05 02:13 PM
trollog  Offline
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 276
San Diego California USA
Yes, that very same outage cut my workday short.. working in Carlsbad, Ca.. Oh well made for a nice quiet afternoon. As an aside, this is just a sign of things to come for all of us in San Diego county... what with all the developement going on in the hot inland interior- most of it high-end luxury homes with 2,3, and even 4 A/C units (for a freakin' residential house!?!?!- have we gone insane around here??) we are going to see more and more of this in the coming years I fear. While many of the lighting schemes I have seen and helped install in some of these "Mc-Mansions" are quite beautiful, elaborate and- I can't complain about this part, profitable- when you consider that similar watthour usage is going on up and down the streets of these gated communities 200-300 times over, depending on the size of the community, the sheer wastefulness of it seems downright obscene. All that usage so that the nintendo-generation can veg-out on the couch eating chips in front of the plasma screen in air-conditioned comfort.....

Re: Short blackout - So. California #55351
08/27/05 02:33 PM
08/27/05 02:33 PM
gfretwell  Offline

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,338
Part of the problem is the old myth that it costs more to cool down a house in the evening when you get home than it is to run the A/C at your favorite temperature all day. When you are talking about these McMansions with five or six totally unused rooms that are cooled 24/7 it adds up fast.
I expect to see some sort of electricity rationing within a decade.
A household that uses more than a megawatt/hr a month per person is starting to get unreasonable and that is not an unusual usage.

Greg Fretwell
Re: Short blackout - So. California #55352
08/27/05 05:35 PM
08/27/05 05:35 PM
Lostazhell  Offline
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,431
Bakersfield, CA (Originally Or...
Hmmm, Thats interesting.. I haven't noticed any disruptions over here in the PG&E area of the San Joaquin Valley (Bakersfield/Rosedale), but it has been <i>seriously</i> hot here this summer with daytime temps peaking around 105°F-111°F for the majority. I saw Huntington Beach listed as a blackout city, which coincidentally wasn't affected by the blackouts in '01 when I lived there...

New houses are going up at a blistering pace out here, and I know all the utilities are having a fair amount or stress to keep up with the area growth.. (SBC just had to do a HUGE equiptment upgrade in my area because of lack of capacity/new construction) PG&E seems to be pulling new line all over as well...


Re: Short blackout - So. California #55353
08/28/05 12:17 PM
08/28/05 12:17 PM
sierra electrician  Offline
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 219
North Fork, CA USA
It was Visaila,Tulare & Porterville areas. All Edison territory.

Re: Short blackout - So. California #55354
08/28/05 05:46 PM
08/28/05 05:46 PM
Larry Fine  Offline
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 693
Richmond, VA
Troll, sometimes it's more economical to heat and cool sections of a house separately, in zones, similarly to the way we use sub-panels in a large installation, than one large zone.

A single, large HVAC system could be designed to condition a large house, but the cost could exceed several, smaller systems. Plus upstairs may require more cooling; downstairs more heating.

And there/s the matter of distribution. There can be more energy lost in extensive ductwork due both to thermal and friction losses, than lost in the cost of multiple zones.

Larry Fine
Fine Electric Co.
Re: Short blackout - So. California #55355
08/28/05 06:08 PM
08/28/05 06:08 PM
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
Get ready for this to become worse before it gets better...a lot worse.

Eco nuts have done everything- and with some success- to prevent the utilisation of existing, developed resources, block the exploitation of new ones, prevent the building of refineries, pipelines, and power plants. The only places with new nuclear plants are North Korea and Iran.
Even the construction of new power lines is opposed- can't have those ugly things here! Bury them? Heck, no- might upset the environment.

Any rate increase is opposed vehemently- no matter that new lines, and maintenance costs money.

Meanwhile, a schizo court has ruled that Enron contracts must continue to be paid off- even though Enron's contracting practices set a new standard of corruption. THAT is surely the way to punish Ken!

At this rate, it won't be long, and the "Twilight Zone" will look like a documentary.

Re: Short blackout - So. California #55356
08/28/05 07:31 PM
08/28/05 07:31 PM
CTwireman  Offline
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 840
Connecticut, USA
It looks like the West is finally close to the day of reckoning with the laws of supply and demand.

People moving into the deserts of California, Nevada, etc on a mass scale can only spell disaster for the electrical supply infrastructure.

It's funny, everyone talks about the nice weather in Califonia but many people forget about the hot interior that requires constant air conditioning in the summer. And then there's Las Vegas and Phoenix and even Texas. I don't even want to think about what's coming. [Linked Image]


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