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#50735 04/17/05 09:53 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 650
W
Member
Call this urban legend rather than confirmed fact...but http://www.darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin1999-50.html

-Jon

#50736 04/17/05 11:28 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 123
M
Member
the real problem then is the amount that I sweat around a main circuit, so why are the always in the hottest part of the building???

#50737 04/17/05 06:53 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 13
R
Member
but when it returns to source,i.e. panel, it uses the grounded conductor to return to earth,...right?


"4 INCHES FROM YOUR CHEST, PYLE!!!, 4 INCHES!!"
#50738 04/17/05 07:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
I
Moderator
Quote
but when it returns to source,i.e. panel, it uses the grounded conductor to return to earth,...right?

The source would never be a panel, the source would be a utility transformer, a generator, photo voltaic system etc.

If we are talking about a grounded system part of the current may flow through the earth (in and out) to get back to where the source is bonded.


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
#50739 04/18/05 10:57 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 13
R
Member
now you're confusing them again. Without formal training, one can only ponder the meanings and visual aspects of these different terms. I was only trying to make it simple, we can go on for days with the theories and principles of electron movement, but is that gonna help a guy on top of a ladder holding on to an I-beam digging around in a 4"sq.?

I didn't want to argue about it, so if you say a duck dips snuff, a duck dips snuff.


"4 INCHES FROM YOUR CHEST, PYLE!!!, 4 INCHES!!"
#50740 04/19/05 03:16 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,876
E
e57 Offline
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We never quite hit the physics of it all...

Anyone care to discuss valence rings, and conducting materials? 1-3 ;D Think of the numbers 5, 7..... [Linked Image] and 8. I'm going to venture to think that a lot of the body is made of items with 4 in the valence.......


Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason
#50741 04/19/05 05:49 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 13
R
Member
If my memory serves me, any atom with more than 8 is very stable making it less likely to be a conductor. Any atom with less than 4 valence electrons is too easily...

Man I don't have my Delmar's textbook with me and I can't remember all the specifics. It's been years since I learned this(1st yr. apprenticeship) and I've been piling up on everything else since, so I'd hate to post something less than perfect.

I'd bet you a dollar to a doughnut that iwire would be there to correct me though!


"4 INCHES FROM YOUR CHEST, PYLE!!!, 4 INCHES!!"
#50742 04/19/05 05:58 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,876
E
e57 Offline
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Your memory serves you well....

1-3 are conductive.
5-8 are non-conductive.
And materials with 4 are semi-conductive when doped with impurities, can go either way with a potential.

I'll bet that much of nervous, and other tissues stand in the realm of 4??????

Life as a giant SCR......


Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason
#50743 04/19/05 09:07 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,723
Likes: 1
Broom Pusher and
Member
Cool, some Electrophysics stuff! [Linked Image]

It has been a few Eons for me, so please bare with my Short-Term memory loss problems! [Linked Image]

Well, first off - one statements has to be made:
"Virtually ALL Substances, in Solid or Liquid State, posses the property of Electrical Conductivity - in some degree"

Some are very efficient Conductors (meaning the greater the density of current for a given potential difference, the more efficient the conductor is said to be),
while others are very efficient Insulators (Non-Conductors, or higher the density of current at a given potential difference, the less efficient they are at conducting).
Some are right between these extremes - and are said to be "Semiconductors".

Basic Theory describes that Atomic Structures with at least 1 *"Free"* Electron in the outermost shell, will act as Conductors (the free electron is bounced between Atoms, etc...).
How much Energy is required to achieve this is another issue [Linked Image]

Typical Efficient Conductors are Metallic - and include substances such as Silver, Copper, Aluminum, Iron, Nickel, Cobalt, Zinc, Gold, Calcium, etc.
Some substances are "Semiconducting", such as Silicon, Germanium, Sodium, Chlorine, Arsenic, etc., while other substances are efficient Insulators - such as Hydrogen and Oxygen.

Elements which are thought of as "Unstable" (Uranium, for example), have many free Electrons in many shells - and are very large Elements too.
They lose "Free" Electrons in natural states (without any intentional influences).

The Curies (sp???) discovered the Element "Radium", due to how the "Free" Electrons caused an effect in the Fog, when they flew away.
The effect looked like tiny Comets in the light Fog.

Back to Electricity!

As mentioned, we use Efficient Conductors for doing the job of carrying Electrical Energy (the complete package) from Generating Source, to desired Load Device.
Energy is Transported along the Efficient Conductors by taking advantage of "Free", or "Unbound" Majority Charge Carriers.
This would include an Electron going forward, falling into a "Hole", which goes backward (just including directions for simplicity).

Any opposition to the free transference of this results in a given level of "Work" being done.
This covers Voltage Drop, Losses, and actual Power Transduction at the intended Load Device.

To eliminate major loss of Smoke [Linked Image], Insulators are used to keep things in check.
These are efficient "Non-Conductors", but are still Conductive to some extent.
They allow a very small level of flow to take place, and act more like Dielectric substances than Insulators (i.e. Capacitive Coupling, Line Charging, etc.).

Semiconductive substances conduct efficiently in one certain direction, and poorly in the opposite direction (flow directions).
They may also work better with certain Majority Charge Carriers - like the way Salt does (Na Cl).
One Element conducts Negative Charges easily, the other conducts Positive Charges easily.
The two Elements bound together become a complete charge carrier.

I've gotta take off now, let me know if we should carry on with this discussion!

Scott35


Scott " 35 " Thompson
Just Say NO To Green Eggs And Ham!
#50744 04/20/05 03:30 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,803
Member
Where I worked we detected an element we tentatively called Administronium. The heaviest element yet discovered, with 1 neutron, 12 assistant neutrons, 75 deputy neutrons and 111 assistant-deputy neutrons, giving an atomic mass of 312. These are all held together by a force called morons, surrounded by vast numbers of peons. Administronium, having no electrons, is absolutely inert, but it can be detected because it impedes any reaction which contacts it. A tiny quantity causes a reaction normally taking a few seconds to drag on for days or weeks. It has a half-life of about 2.5 years, but it doesn't decay- No! - instead it reorganises a portion of the assistant and deputy neutrons to change places. In fact its mass always increases over time, as morons join assistant-deputy neutrons to form isodopes. Some scientists think that this characteristic of 'moron promotion' means that Administonium forms spontaniously whenever enough morons gather together, the so called "Critical Morass".
Is it a good conductor of electricity? - I dunno- but I'd love to find out!!!!!
Alan


Wood work but can't!
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