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Wiring split receptacles. #50683
04/10/05 09:02 AM
04/10/05 09:02 AM
C
cgw  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 133
Rochester NY
A store owner wants the receptacles around the (small) store wired so a switch controls half of the split receptacles. Would you wire the receptacles on one circuit running to the switch first and then to the receptacles with 3 wires (hot-hot-neutral) with one of the hot wire switched? Is it OK to do this with 3 wire cable (e.g. make the red wire the switched wire)? If you were pulling wire in conduit would you use different color for the switched hot?

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Re: Wiring split receptacles. #50684
04/10/05 09:13 AM
04/10/05 09:13 AM
Z
Zapped  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 482
Huntington Beach, CA, USA
That's how I do it. If the hot circuit is black, I'd use red or blue for the switched circuit.

Just as good practice, I always run the half hot from a seperate circuit, but on the same phase whenever possible. This way, you aren't putting 240V in reach of a curious kid with a paperclip.

If you can, run an additional neutral, so the outlet is completely split, especially in commercial. It's just good practice, in that commercial demands are usually enough to overload a single (#12) neutral on 2X 20A circuits.

I'd also use 20A devices, including the switch.

=)

Re: Wiring split receptacles. #50685
04/10/05 09:24 AM
04/10/05 09:24 AM
J
jdadamo  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 37
Calgary, AB, Canada
Zapped, if you are running two circuits off of the same phase and not including a second neutral, then you must oversize the shared neutral. You didn't mention that and I think it's pretty critical information.

Your scenario mentioned about overloading the neutral is not really an acceptable risk to leave open. You either need to wire on separate phases, or use the same circuit, or oversize the neutral.

2 x 20 A on the same phase would require an 8 gauge neutral to handle a maximum of 40 amps.

[This message has been edited by jdadamo (edited 04-10-2005).]

Re: Wiring split receptacles. #50686
04/10/05 09:35 AM
04/10/05 09:35 AM
E
elektrikguy  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 132
woodstock,ga,usa
Zapped:

You may want to rethink your idea of another circuit on the same phase that share the same neutral. The neutral is set up to carry the unbalanced load of circuits of different phases but will have an "additive" effect in the situation you have described.

Typical install:

A PHASE= 12A
B PHASE= 12A
NEUTRAL= 0A

Install desribed:

A Phase= 12A
A Phase= 12A
Neutral= 24A

The safest thing one can do in a split-wire receptacle situation is to wire both halves to the same circuit(Phase). IMO.

Re: Wiring split receptacles. #50687
04/10/05 09:37 AM
04/10/05 09:37 AM
E
elektrikguy  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 132
woodstock,ga,usa
Man do I type slow huh??

Re: Wiring split receptacles. #50688
04/10/05 09:41 AM
04/10/05 09:41 AM
R
Redsy  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
Bucks County PA
Outside the situation described in 225.7(B),
using an oversized neutral to carry the sum of the currents on 2 conductors on the same phase would be highly unconventional and impractical, (especially with regard to wiring device installation and box fill), if not necessarily a violation.

Re: Wiring split receptacles. #50689
04/10/05 10:28 AM
04/10/05 10:28 AM
J
jdadamo  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 37
Calgary, AB, Canada
Yeah don't actually do what I suggested (please...) I agree with Redsy; it's overly convoluted. I was just taking a theoretical stance on what would actually be required to carry that potential neutral load safely.

Re: Wiring split receptacles. #50690
04/10/05 10:48 AM
04/10/05 10:48 AM
E
e57  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,876
S.F.,CA USA
Outside of the neutral over-load in having two of the same phase and seperate circuits, you'd also have to have one wierd special order handle tie for the breakers. Required by 210.4(B), as written only applies to dwellings, but still not a good practice. Why not just have the on the same circuit?


Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason
Re: Wiring split receptacles. #50691
04/10/05 10:56 AM
04/10/05 10:56 AM
E
e57  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,876
S.F.,CA USA
Anyway cgw, the method you described is fine. One of the areas I work in requires phasing on all power circuits, and seeing that the receptical could be used for other than lighting, they would want the switched wire phased to the color of the circuit. Even though the why I see it, it is not required. It could be any color you want....


Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason
Re: Wiring split receptacles. #50692
04/10/05 02:48 PM
04/10/05 02:48 PM
W
wa2ise  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 787
Oradell NJ USA
Quote
Just as good practice, I always run the half hot from a seperate circuit, but on the same phase whenever possible. This way, you aren't putting 240V in reach of a curious kid with a paperclip.

If you can, run an additional neutral, so the outlet is completely split, especially in commercial.


Isn't there a requirement that all circuits feeding the same yoke device be controlled by circuit breakers tied together? Doing that on circuits on the same phase would be a bit hard as most panels have alternating phases on adjacent spaces. Maybe use a breaker meant for 3 phase work, but is that code?

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