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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 804
B
BigB Offline OP
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Has anyone noticed all the panel manufactureres offer a "homeowner pack" service panel that includes six or eight 20amp breakers and a couple 30A 2 pole? None of them come with any 15 amp breakers. They are sold mainly at home improvement centers. I just wonder if a lot of DIYs will use those 20 amp breakers on their #14AWG circuits.

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 806
N
Member
The typical DIYer trying to change out a service will screw up well before they get to installing the branch breakers. [Linked Image] Can you imagine one of them pulling a live meter, or cutting/rebugging at the weatherhead?

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 276
T
Member
Yeah I have a hard time imagining an accountant or something doing this, but it would be interesting to see...

Lets count how many of these packs we can identify in some of the "violation forum" photos.. [Linked Image]

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 697
D
Member
The worst HO job I've ever seen was with an addition to his house. He removed the OH lines and moved them to the other side of the house (live). Then he tied them to the fascia & taped them into his lines (no split bolts, just tape) and into the service distribution panel (no meter socket).

He didn't quite understand an electricians description of the connection, so he put one wire on the main & the other on the neutral bar. The support was still on the soffit. He threw the main & saw the insulation bubbling on the wire & shut it off. Everything in the house took 240, so they lost the refrigerator & some other things.

He called me in for the upgrade and still insisted on doing the interior wiring of the addition himself. He was lucky to be alive.

Dave

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 329
S
Member
Around here the electrical supply houses have the same deal but you can pick your breakers. They offer it in SQ D QO, SQ D HO & Siemens. It each case we get the panel, 10 1 poles and 3 2 poles (max 50A on the 2 poles). Actually the pack is already assembled but they'll open the box and swap the breakers. It's a great deal.

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 886
H
Member
I think these manufacturers crossed an ethical line when they chose to call these things "Homeowner Packs". Apparently they will do anything to sell their products and increase their profits even if it encourages people to kill themselves.

As far as I'm concerned they should be prohibited from selling panels, meter sockets, service cable and the like at those "home centers".

I don't care if the HO may be allowed to do their own work, if they can't get the materials they can't get into trouble.

-Hal

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,064
D
Member
Don't get me wrong here, but if the box stores shouldn't sell panels, should Pep boys sell brakes to me if I am an electrician?
Should the box stores sell me lumber?
How bout plumbing supplies?

It's not the box stores problem, it is the guy who thinks he knows what he is doing that is at fault.

I say let him get hurt.......

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 681
P
Member
It is a free country (at least the last time I looked) and the stores should be able to sell to anyone. The installer is what needs to be regulated. I agree with Dnkldorf.

Pierre


Pierre Belarge
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 886
H
Member
Do they sell explosives to the DIY's? How about freon, drugs, radioactive materials many chemicals and pesticides?

We didn't have this problem until the box stores made it easy for the audiences of Hometime and This Old House to get any materials they want. Before that about the only place was the supply house and DIY's didn't last long there.

About the same time the electrical contractors respectibility got cut down by at least a couple of notches because anybody can do electrical work now. If you don't believe me just go to some of those DIY electrical boards and see the disdain they have for EC's.

Yeah, it's a free country and that may mean that DIY's can do their own work but that also means that you are free to not sell to them if you choose. Unfortunately I believe that these places have put profits before public safety.

Gee, I would like to install a couple of split A/C systems in my house for this summer but nobody will sell them to me without a refrigeration license. Funny thing is nobody would be in danger of dying or really in danger of much of anything if I managed to get my hands on them, yet it seems like the environmentalists managed to keep these off the shelves of Home Depot without a problem.

Guess the ozone layer is more important than peoples lives.

-Hal

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 697
D
Member
Not to minimize your rant, Hal, but I think HD is selling panels and breakers to ECs like me much more than homeowners.

Dave

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