ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area Bad Ground Reading

Hi,
Went back and tied in the bonding strap to the neutral bar. Tested the ckt again and got the green light.

There was no bond between the two systems.

That little tester just paid for itself!

Thanks for the help.

-regards

Greg

Just think back, you called me a hard-a$$.

Hi,
Thanks again for the replies. Derek I am sorry that something I may have said may have upset you. I do not remember using the term you used but if I did please accept my apology as it was not my intention to offend.

Sometimes e-mails and post can leave a lot to be desired as far as conveying a message. What may sound just fine in the spoken form may not come across the same in written form.

I vaguely remember the post but I also remember misinterpreting the comment.

The great thing about the site is that it allows a lot of different opinions.

Thanks for your feedback.

Once again, my apologies.

-regards

Greg

Greg, no need to apologize, I am poking some fun at you. It was a post about me firing an EC for some tower grounding work. There isn’t anything you can call this ole redneck that does not apply. I am just south of you in Ft. Smith and work for the major wireless telephone company in your area. You can figure out whom by “You Got That Right”. May look you up when building out up in that area if you can take directions from a SOB.

This thread reflects the confusion that there is, even in the NEC, regarding separate buildings on the same service. Heck, even the IAEI asked three of its' folks, and got three different answers! That's one reason the last two code cycles have had do much re-arranging in section 250.

KISS. Ground rods are for lightning, and only lightning. Each building gets one (or similar electrode).
The green wires are for bonding everything; that is, giving lost electricity a way to find its' way home again- "home" being the service point, where the ground and neutrals are connected.

Since a ground wire is a ground wire, and a neutral is a neutral, the two systems are kept separated everywhere else. You wouldn't want your conduit acting like a "neutral", would you? So, we don't make parallel paths possible.
Since pipe is inadequate for cleaing all but the smallest faults, we run a supplimental ground wire. While this wire is often quite a bit smaller than the feeder wires, it's there.

The effect of all this is to require that sub-panels have four wires run to them: two hots, a neutral, and a ground.

Just one quick one
You said # 8 ground wire
we use # 4 up here in upstate NY

Hi,
Thanks for the replies. Why would you want to use a #4 on a 70A panel? Take a look at table 250.66.

Another question I was thinking about..

Why would a ground rod at a pool pump panel not be required, especially if it is all about lightning?

-regards

Greg

Read 250.50. If the pool pump panel is in a separate building or structure than the main service an electrode is required at that building or structure. The pool pump panels I have installed were fed with a 4 wire feeder, neutrals and grounds separated and an electrode installed and connected to the equipment ground bar.

Mustang, I was trying to make a simple summary of an issue that, as I mentioned, even the NFPA gets confused over.
Just to play Devils's advocate, the rebar of a pool is required to be bonded, etc....making it identical to a Ufer ground, for all intents and purpoese. Remember, the "rod" is but one of several electrodes permitted.

For the GEC, the NEC gives a minimum size of #6, though many places require #4.
For the bond between panels, the water bond, etc., our local code mandates a minimum #8 size.

btw
as mentioned
If the pool pump panel is mounted in or on a structure the grounding electrode system mentioned in 250.50 is mandated.
and just to clarify

The structual steel of a pool and its use and interconnection to other non current carrying metal parts is addressed in 680.26 and that is bonding.