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#45059 11/18/04 05:15 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 697
D
Dave55 Offline OP
Member
As you might know by now those of us from the Chicagoland area use a lot of conduit. That's why my opinion of NM is pretty low...none of the municipalities allow it.

Let's face it...it's CHEAP STUFF. You plug into outlets the same way, and the lights work the same way. The owner doesn't know the difference, so the general gets to put another few thousand dollars in his pocket. In the physical protection category it's...well...not quite as good as an extension cord.

Anyway, I'm reading an ad from Romex about their new line of easier to pull NM, and one of their selling points is...

REDUCED BURN-THRU!!!

Isn't that sort of saying, "Yes, we know it burns through, but it burns through LESS". It's also tear resistant, so when it snags on that splinter in the stud and tears through the insulation it might burn through the stud and your house(but it's LESS likely to).

Dave

#45060 11/18/04 05:19 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
R
Member
Dave,
I think that "burn-through" applies to the damage that is caused when you pull one NM against a second one. The same problem exists with tray cable and larger conductors in raceways. The friction and abrasion caused by the moving cable cuts into the insulation on the stationary cable.
Don


Don(resqcapt19)
#45061 11/18/04 05:41 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 231
R
Member
In Canada Romex,(Lumex as we call it), is in almost every house. If installed properly it works great. If we had to run conduit everywhere EC's would get more money but Lumex works fine so there is no need. Do you really think that other locations would allow this type of wiring if it was unsafe?

#45062 11/18/04 06:08 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 186
N
Member
Over here in the usa east coast new jersey area lol , its all nm. I understand making the green off running pipe but its got its ups and downs, its great to pull in but it sucks when you gotta come back and old work in an outlet. Where as nm we fish it in where ever. Theres not to many places i cant pull a line in pretty quick? Besides i mean i know someone who worked the mid west doing pipe work in res. and they were taking a week a house. Thats alot of time i mean we get 1 day with a mech and a helper to rough in a large home. When you can do 6 a week times how ever many crews you got out there, theres your profit. And i mean theres time when your doing town homes where your doing 2-3 a day with a couple of guys.
WEll to also say its cheap stuff, is not true if it is used properly it will be fine. the burn through yes is meant as far as friction from rubbing against other lines. ON the flip side we use alot of nm and i think pipe (emt)is over kill in res. work and thats part the reason homes are getting so expensive anymore from over kill like such!

[This message has been edited by NJ Wireman (edited 11-18-2004).]

#45063 11/18/04 06:25 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 449
F
Member
You don't "put another few thousand" in your pocket by using NM. If everyone else in your market is using/bidding NM you have to be competitive and couldn't charge as you would if you were piping a job. The cost gap between NM and an EMT job widened in my area this year as EMT tripled in price. I would love to be able bid pipe and install NM but it just doesn't work that way. You may think NM is crap and you are entitled to your opinion but I install both and while I prefer pipe jobs(even houses)NM has it's place and properly installed is a fine system. Like any product, it is only as good as the person installing it.

#45064 11/18/04 07:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,457
E
Member
Dave, the reason you have a low opinion of romex is because you don't use it. [Linked Image] To me that is an ignorant statement. Millions of homes are wired with romex with absolutley no problems. The only people with extra thousands of dollars in their pockets are the conduit manufacturers.

#45065 11/18/04 07:37 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,157
Member
,(Lumex as we call it),

In British Columbia we call it Loomex [Linked Image]

#45066 11/18/04 07:49 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 914
E
Member
There's nothing wrong with NM. I've never heard of a house burning down because it was wired with NM. If properly sized and breakered, it's almost impossible for the wire itself to be the cause of a fire. Fires generally start at the termination, which go to the installer or product attached, not the wire. I've never seen a house wired with anything but NM and I've never seen a problem related to it either.

[This message has been edited by Electric Eagle (edited 11-18-2004).]

#45067 11/18/04 09:14 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,143
D
Member
I was exclusively conduit for many years, until my mom moved down south (Decatur, IL). They allow NM.

I picked it up quick. Luckily, one of the rewire jobs I had (K&T) allowed NM, so I was able to follow the original runs and pull it through the tube penetrations.

#45068 11/19/04 02:26 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,691
S
Member
My only problem with NM is that rodents could probably see it as a handy snack and chew on the insulation.

I wonder if that's part of the reason why New York City requires BX for anything more than a three-story residential house or why Chicago requires pipe.

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