ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Recent Posts
Al Hildenbrand - Minneapolis - obituary
by Bill Addiss - 02/03/23 07:38 PM
by renosteinke - 01/27/23 09:52 PM
Does NEC 551.71 (F) apply to dwellings?
by BigB - 01/20/23 10:46 AM
Power submeter connections
by HotLine1 - 01/19/23 09:09 AM
New in the Gallery:
Burger King crown sillyness
Burger King crown sillyness
by wa2ise, December 11
240/208 to a house
240/208 to a house
by wa2ise, October 9
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 125 guests, and 10 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
#42701 09/24/04 08:02 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 74
CRM Offline OP
At work today, I had to rewire 4 heating system boilers in a commercial building. Three of these boilers had to run off of one thermostat, I was going to use a 3 pole control relay to accomplish this. Each of these boilers has it's own 24volt control circuit, a (R) and a (W) terminal to fire the boiler. The previous installer didn't use a relay, he joined all 3 (R) terminals together and all 3 (W) terminals together, from each boiler and put them on 1 thermostat. My thinking has always been, if you join 3 separate control systems together you would short them out, possibly burning out the transformers, but these boilers have worked like this for about a year. Is it okay to do this without a relay. Thanks for any replies.

#42702 09/24/04 08:55 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 947
twh Offline
Nothing direct, but I talked to an electrician about that, this week. She told me that they must be on the same phase - something about the interconnected wiring between units. Sorry, but I didn't ask more questions. I'm a little slow before 10 cups of coffee.

#42703 09/24/04 09:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 54
It may work but it is not the way to do it IMO. Transformers do weird things when they "talk" to each other like that. It could also burn up the t-stat. I do quite a bit of heating-cooling wiring and always keep a couple of "RIB"s (relay in a box) in the truck. Constantly getting me out of a jam (about $12 each).

#42704 09/24/04 09:48 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 947
twh Offline
leespark, I'll ask when I see her again, but I got the impression that it was manufacturer's specs. I agree with you, and she clearly agreed with us, but the manufacturer wins. It didn't work, then, when changed, it did work.

I'll ask.

#42705 09/25/04 01:09 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,527
“Jumpering” three control systems with individual control-power transformers through a single contact is very shortsighted—likely unreliable at very least—worse, unpredictably hazardous for boiler-operational safety.

It could very well be that the boilers are not shutting down by the subject thermoset, but instead being repeatedly cycled by safety-limit controls—which may be a very serious error.

[This message has been edited by Bjarney (edited 09-25-2004).]

#42706 09/25/04 01:38 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 86
I feel they were very fortunate not to have had a problem on the control circuits of those boilers for such a long time. I agree with you regarding installing a three pole relay controlled by the thermostat. It looks more professional and should one boilers control circuit fail it would still allow the other ones to continue instead of dropping all three.

#42707 09/25/04 04:09 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 162
If I'm following you correctly you are suggesting that the 24V power supplies are interconnected. I have not seen that for some time. What Class power supply are you working with? I would check 725.41 (B) Interconnection of Power Sources. Class 2 or Class 3 power sources shall not have the output connections paralleled or otherwise interconnected unless listed for such interconnection.
In my experience parallel systems are unreliable and subject to failure also as mentioned by previous posts.

#42708 10/10/04 10:47 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 947
twh Offline
I did follow up on this. My friend's situation was two furnaces running off one stat. The manufacturer's specs were that they were to be fed from the same phase. Two interconnected furnaces, one stat, and approved that way. Sometimes we just have to be good little soldiers and, like it or not, do what we're told.

Link Copied to Clipboard

Tools for Electricians
Tools for Electricians

* * * * * * *
2023 National Electrical Code (NEC)
2023 NEC Now Available!
* * * * * * *

2020 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2020 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman


Member Spotlight
lil suzi
lil suzi
Posts: 57
Joined: August 2003
Top Posters(30 Days)
triple 3
BigB 3
Popular Topics(Views)
303,160 Are you busy
232,170 Re: Forum
216,903 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5