ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
ShoutChat
Recent Posts
Switched Receptacles -Top or Bottom?
by gfretwell - 07/28/21 10:06 PM
Lowes Selling this fan
by timmp - 07/25/21 10:58 PM
How's all our Non-US folks doing?
by djk - 07/23/21 09:13 PM
Do You Travel?
by Bill Addiss - 07/20/21 04:26 PM
Backup Generator Done Right
by timmp - 07/18/21 12:20 PM
New in the Gallery:
February, North East Indiana
February, North East Indiana
by timmp, July 25
Red Green would be proud
Red Green would be proud
by timmp, July 25
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 9 guests, and 20 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#37884 05/10/04 01:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 9
W
Junior Member
I have to enclose some open air splices in knob and tube wiring that ties to romex.
I will be going to look at it tomorrow, but I need some ideas how to get the old stuff into a j-box. Usually k and t is ripped out and replaced, but these people are selling and do not want to spend much.


Patrick
#37885 05/10/04 02:17 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,275
Likes: 2
Member
Each conductor must enter through an individual KO, and be protected by a non-conductive sleeve and the sleeve should be clamped/secured to the box.

Some people use a grommet in a 1/2" KO, as the 'sleeving', more than likely is unavailable.

Speak to your local AHJ for his/her take on this method.

John


John
#37886 05/10/04 07:05 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 914
E
Member
I haven't seen the splices, but if they are original to the wiring, I think they are safer if left alone. I personally would refuse the job if the customer wouldn't allow a rewire of the circuit. Make sure your liability policy is in good order.

#37887 05/11/04 11:04 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 597
E
Member
The other side of the coin. . .

Extensions from an existing K&T branch circuit have a history of being normal wiring practice. Depending on local ordinance, they may still be legal to create. The NEC still describes how to do it without a j-box.

300.16 includes "fitting" as well as "box". If the open air splice you are looking at has a "monkey face" transition fitting on the end of the NM cable sheath, then the splices to the existing K&T are permitted without a box exclosing them.


Al Hildenbrand
#37888 05/11/04 08:02 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,275
Likes: 2
Member
ElectricAl:
Now there's a fitting name I have not heard of in many years..(Monkeyface)

Back in the 'prentice days we ran accross a lot of K&T, but now it's pretty 'rare' around here. I think the old sleeving is hard to come by, but the monkeyface??? Maybe antique roadshow!

John


John
#37889 05/11/04 09:13 PM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
H
Member
I should use a plastic box for the K&T otherwise you might have to cut a slot in the metal box if the 2 wires go through different openings.

#37890 05/11/04 11:07 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 597
E
Member
John,

I haven't seen a real monkeyface for sale in a very long time, either. This image shows one that terminates the armor sheath on BX cable. [Linked Image]
The basic function is that of a weatherhead, that is, end the raceway or cable and let the individual conductors run on in open air.

If one were to transition now from NM to K&T, using contemporary material, I'd suggest using a threaded ½" weatherhead with a ½" threaded romex clamp.

Al


Al Hildenbrand
#37891 05/12/04 07:13 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 650
W
Member
I do not know if the below stuff is _listed_ for the application, though the catalog claims 'UL recognized', which I belive applies to components going into apparatus as opposed to finished products. Is this stuff be suitable as the 'sleeving' described? If so, it is pretty easy to get. We use it in our lab for low voltage motor terminations.

McMaster-Carr electrical sleeving catalog page

-Jon

#37892 05/12/04 10:03 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 597
E
Member
Over at EC&M, there is a question and answer about this very topic. It is from 2001 and is under the 1999 NEC, but the answer is still accurate, although the code citation numbers shifted some under the 2002 NEC. The NM to K&T splice is the third question, the question at the bottom of the page.


Al Hildenbrand
#37893 05/12/04 04:53 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,749
Member
winnie, looks like they may:

UL Lists this product:

[quote}TUBING, FLEXIBLE NONMETALLIC
(YCTR)
These listings include woven flexible nonmetallic tubing (fiber loom) in
trade sizes 7/32 to 2-1/2 in. incl. for installation as mechanical protection
in accordance with Articles 320 and 324 of the National Electrical Code.
The basic standard used to investigate products in this category isUL3,
‘‘Flexible Nonmetallic Tubing’’.
The Listing Mark of Underwriters Laboratories Inc. on the product is the
only method provided by UL to identify products manufactured under its
Listing and Follow-Up Service. The Listing Mark for these products
includes the UL symbol (as illustrated in the Introduction of this Directory)
together with the word "LISTED," a control number, and the product
name "Nonmetallic Flexible Tubing".[/quote]


Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
Featured:

Tools for Electricians
Tools for Electricians
 

* * * * * * *

2020 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2020 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
Potseal
Potseal
Saskatchewan
Posts: 264
Joined: February 2013
Top Posters(30 Days)
timmp 8
Rachel 4
djk 2
Popular Topics(Views)
281,578 Are you busy
215,216 Re: Forum
202,053 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5